Dec 31, 2018 · 40m · how-i-built-this
Kickstarter: Perry Chen (2018)
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Kickstarter co-founder Perry Chen about the platform's eight-year journey from a failed concert idea to a global crowdfunding movement rooted in deliberate growth and public benefit.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 36.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.6 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.4 Guy pushing back 1.3
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 27:27 Perry refutes Guy's hardware ban claim
Perry directly rejects Guy's premise that Kickstarter banned tech hardware prototyping, clearly stating 'that is not entirely accurate' before explaining prototype transparency rules.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 28:47 Guy presses on lucrative commercial brand partnershipsGuy pushes Perry on why Kickstarter would not accept higher commissions from established corporate hardware manufacturers in exchange for homepage promotion.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:49 Perry reframes patronage history away from the MedicisPerry educates Guy by rejecting the top-down Medici comparison, citing historical grassroots subscription campaigns by Walt Whitman, Mozart, and the Statue of Liberty pedestal.
Guy holds their own ▶ 24:45 Guy interrogates VC alignment and exit pressureGuy demonstrates sharp startup expertise by grilling Perry on how accepting investor cash inevitably triggers board loss of control and mandatory exit timelines.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Deconstructing the Mythical Tech Startup Narrative | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Guy establishes the opening narrative contrasting Kickstarter's slow evolution with Silicon Valley clichés. Perry candidly recounts his aimless post-college stint day trading in New York, which he viewed as pointless shuffling of numbers. | |
| The Concert That Sparked the Kickstarter Idea | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Perry describes the initial spark for Kickstarter when trying to promote a concert in New Orleans. When Guy asks if he envied peers entering traditional corporate careers, Perry firmly dismisses the premise, noting he had no desire to work 70 hours a week. | |
| Returning to New York and Partnering with Yancey Strickler | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Perry explains moving back to New York and meeting co-founder Yancey Strickler while waitering at a Brooklyn restaurant. The dynamic is purely collaborative storytelling detailing their non-technical backgrounds. | |
| Bringing on Charles Adler and Designing the Blueprint | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Perry shares how Charles Adler joined as designer to create a 100-page specification without any code. Guy inquires about their early seed funding from David Cross and initial branding iterations. | |
| The All-or-Nothing Model and Changing Web Dynamics | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks why the team persisted through three years of slow development without an MVP. Perry explains that seeing the macro evolution of Web 2.0 and social media reinforced the necessity of their crowdfunding model. | |
| Mid-Roll Announcement and Teaser | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks how Perry handled the severe psychological anxiety of uncertainty while competitors like Indiegogo launched earlier. Perry explains his internal emotional regulation techniques and bringing on Andy Baio as CTO. | |
| The 2009 Launch and Organic Creator Growth | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Perry describes the organic, steady growth after launch in April 2009, contrasting their deliberate pace with the tech myth of overnight viral scale. Guy prompts for specifics about the first projects hosted on the platform. | |
| Angel Funding and Achieving Profitability | 3 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Guy questions how Kickstarter raised angel capital without succumbing to conventional VC pressure for hypergrowth and fast exits. Perry explains they took personal angel checks with explicit alignment against selling out. | |
| Enforcing 'Kickstarter Is Not a Store' and Creator Equity | 4 | 4 | 3 | 3 | Guy asserts that Kickstarter shut down gadget and hardware prototyping projects. Perry politely corrects the framing, detailing the 'Kickstarter is not a store' policy and explaining why they reject preferential corporate partnerships. | |
| Historical Patronage and Becoming a Public Benefit Corporation | 4 | 5 | 3 | 2 | When Guy offers flattering comparisons to the Medici patronage system, Perry dismantles the analogy, highlighting historical bottom-up subscription models like Walt Whitman and the Statue of Liberty, before outlining Kickstarter's Public Benefit Corporation governance. | |
| Transitioning Leadership and Reflections on the Mission | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Perry reflects on stepping aside as CEO to pursue artistic projects rather than staying on the corporate executive circuit. Guy adds post-interview context regarding Perry's eventual return as CEO. | |
| 'How You Built That': Dustin Hogren and Wazoo Survival Gear | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | The episode concludes with the 'How You Built That' segment featuring Dustin Hogren of Wazoo Survival Gear, detailing the manufacturing hurdles of fulfilling a massive Kickstarter campaign. |
Statements from this episode (12)
Chen: Day traders provide no value beyond shuffling numbers
“The traders like to think that they're providing liquidity, like some great service, but, you know, it's, you're doing nothing. You're shuffling some numbers from one computer to another.”
Kickstarter originated as an all-or-nothing funding model for concerts
“I thought, what if the people that, Would want to come to the show could have a say in that, and if enough people could do that before a certain point, then the show could happen, and if not, then it doesn't.”
Neither Kickstarter co-founder knew how to code
“Well, I certainly didn't from any technical sense. I cannot code, and I couldn't code. But, I think I Had a sense of what it should feel like. I know what I like, I know what I think feels good when I'm on a site, but from the deep technical stuff, no, that wa…”
Kickstarter founders wrote a 100-page spec before writing any code
“I think at the end we produced a document over a hundred pages about how the site would function, with zero code written, mind you.”
Comedian David Cross was Kickstarter's first angel investor
“I had a friend of mine, and her cousin is David Cross, the comedian from Arrested Development, and many other, Mr. Show, and great stuff. And so she connected us, and we went and had a drink at a bar, and I talked to him about the idea, and, ah, a few months l…”
Kickstarter raised just $120,000 in seed funding over 18 months
“It took us a year and a half, so from that point, probably from there to early 2008, we raised maybe a 120,000 dollars in a year and a half.”
Andy Baio screened early Kickstarter developers because founders couldn't review code
“One of the people we met was Andy Baio, who really helped us kind of figure out what kind of technology we should be using, and helped us interview the developers that we Would hire, and he eventually became our first CTO. That was tremendously helpful because…”
Kickstarter explicitly told early investors it would not IPO or sell
“I think going into it, we knew that we weren't building this to sell this, and we weren't trying to create a public company. And when we went out for investment, this was, you know, one of the first things we discussed with people.”
Kickstarter reached profitability within 18 months of launch
“I think, you know, the first six months, not at all, no revenue. I think within a year after that, so probably within the first 18 months, we got in the black.”
Kickstarter rejects special promotional deals for big companies
“If you want, like, some special stuff from us or whatever, I mean, that's just not what we do. It's a relatively open door, but you're not any better than some young creator who's working on their first idea.”
Kickstarter has surpassed $3 billion in total project pledges
“Recently, we passed the three billion dollar pledge mark.”
Chen: Pure shareholder profit maximization is unfit for humans
“If underneath the mandate is, at the end of the day, make the most money for shareholders, it's a really, it's not really a good fit for humans, and I don't think it's, It portends very well for society if this is what we accept as the only way to do it.”