StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Mar 2, 2023 · 36m · how-i-built-this

HIBT Lab! The Confess Project: Lorenzo Lewis

Lorenzo Lewis · 21m spoken Guy Raz · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of How I Built This Lab, host Guy Raz interviews Lorenzo Lewis, founder of The Confess Project, about his journey from childhood trauma and juvenile detention to pioneering an innovative national movement that trains barbers as frontline mental health advocates. Lewis details how culturally rooted peer-support models and healthcare integrations are breaking down systemic barriers and destigmatizing emotional wellness across communities.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 33.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 0.1 Guy pushing back 0.4
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:49–4:46 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Lorenzo Lewis on Childhood Trauma and Identity Struggle Guy Raz demonstrates thorough background research on Lewis's childhood, naming specific family members like Aunt Daisy and T-Roy. Lewis openly shares the emotional impact of growing up with incarcerated parents in a deeply collaborative atmosphere.4:49–7:56 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Juvenile Incarceration and the Decision to Change Paths Raz recounts specific biographical facts about Lewis's high school run-in with the law and juvenile detention. Lewis explains how avoiding a felony conviction served as a pivotal turning point to pursue higher education.7:58–11:46 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Recognizing Mental Health Gaps in Arkansas Youth Services Raz explores the challenges of addressing trauma among troubled youth and the limitations of traditional therapy. Lewis educates the host on the severe lack of African American psychiatric providers and how relatable lived experience is vital.11:48–19:00 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Exploring Grassroots Mental Health and Social Enterprise Models Lewis describes transitioning from corporate employment to grassroots organizing in Little Rock, starting with an under-attended library meeting before pivoting to barbershops. Raz relates via his own personal experience with therapy waiting room stigma.19:01–24:18 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 The Confess Project Training Model and Crisis Intervention Lewis details The Confess Project's four-pillar curriculum and shares real-world crisis intervention examples. Raz validates the concept by introducing an apt CPR-advocacy analogy that Lewis affirms enthusiastically.24:19–26:35 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Engaging Clients in Natural Everyday Mental Health Conversations Raz asks whether clients push back against personal inquiries from barbers. Lewis clarifies that barbers already have organic personal relationships with their clients, so the curriculum simply structures conversations already taking place.26:51–29:42 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Historical Legacy and Intimacy of the Black Barbershop Raz asks what makes the barber chair uniquely intimate. Lewis provides a rich historical overview spanning from slavery and Civil Rights era organizing to modern public health campaigns like COVID-19 vaccinations in shops.29:44–33:10 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Expanding Nationwide and Developing a Sustainable Healthcare Model Raz pivots to the business sustainability of the social enterprise. Lewis explains their expanding joint venture model that integrates with healthcare reimbursement, Medicare/Medicaid billing, and academic research partnerships.33:11–35:05 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Long-Term Vision for an Inclusive Community Health Ecosystem Raz asks for Lewis's long-term 10-to-20-year vision. Lewis articulates a comprehensive health and community support ecosystem serving broader diverse populations while staying grounded in authentic representation.1:49–4:46 · Guest teaching 1/10 Lorenzo Lewis on Childhood Trauma and Identity Struggle Guy Raz demonstrates thorough background research on Lewis's childhood, naming specific family members like Aunt Daisy and T-Roy. Lewis openly shares the emotional impact of growing up with incarcerated parents in a deeply collaborative atmosphere.4:49–7:56 · Guest teaching 1/10 Juvenile Incarceration and the Decision to Change Paths Raz recounts specific biographical facts about Lewis's high school run-in with the law and juvenile detention. Lewis explains how avoiding a felony conviction served as a pivotal turning point to pursue higher education.7:58–11:46 · Guest teaching 3/10 Recognizing Mental Health Gaps in Arkansas Youth Services Raz explores the challenges of addressing trauma among troubled youth and the limitations of traditional therapy. Lewis educates the host on the severe lack of African American psychiatric providers and how relatable lived experience is vital.11:48–19:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Exploring Grassroots Mental Health and Social Enterprise Models Lewis describes transitioning from corporate employment to grassroots organizing in Little Rock, starting with an under-attended library meeting before pivoting to barbershops. Raz relates via his own personal experience with therapy waiting room stigma.19:01–24:18 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Confess Project Training Model and Crisis Intervention Lewis details The Confess Project's four-pillar curriculum and shares real-world crisis intervention examples. Raz validates the concept by introducing an apt CPR-advocacy analogy that Lewis affirms enthusiastically.24:19–26:35 · Guest teaching 2/10 Engaging Clients in Natural Everyday Mental Health Conversations Raz asks whether clients push back against personal inquiries from barbers. Lewis clarifies that barbers already have organic personal relationships with their clients, so the curriculum simply structures conversations already taking place.26:51–29:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 Historical Legacy and Intimacy of the Black Barbershop Raz asks what makes the barber chair uniquely intimate. Lewis provides a rich historical overview spanning from slavery and Civil Rights era organizing to modern public health campaigns like COVID-19 vaccinations in shops.29:44–33:10 · Guest teaching 3/10 Expanding Nationwide and Developing a Sustainable Healthcare Model Raz pivots to the business sustainability of the social enterprise. Lewis explains their expanding joint venture model that integrates with healthcare reimbursement, Medicare/Medicaid billing, and academic research partnerships.33:11–35:05 · Guest teaching 1/10 Long-Term Vision for an Inclusive Community Health Ecosystem Raz asks for Lewis's long-term 10-to-20-year vision. Lewis articulates a comprehensive health and community support ecosystem serving broader diverse populations while staying grounded in authentic representation.1:49–4:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Lorenzo Lewis on Childhood Trauma and Identity Struggle Guy Raz demonstrates thorough background research on Lewis's childhood, naming specific family members like Aunt Daisy and T-Roy. Lewis openly shares the emotional impact of growing up with incarcerated parents in a deeply collaborative atmosphere.4:49–7:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Juvenile Incarceration and the Decision to Change Paths Raz recounts specific biographical facts about Lewis's high school run-in with the law and juvenile detention. Lewis explains how avoiding a felony conviction served as a pivotal turning point to pursue higher education.7:58–11:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Recognizing Mental Health Gaps in Arkansas Youth Services Raz explores the challenges of addressing trauma among troubled youth and the limitations of traditional therapy. Lewis educates the host on the severe lack of African American psychiatric providers and how relatable lived experience is vital.11:48–19:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Exploring Grassroots Mental Health and Social Enterprise Models Lewis describes transitioning from corporate employment to grassroots organizing in Little Rock, starting with an under-attended library meeting before pivoting to barbershops. Raz relates via his own personal experience with therapy waiting room stigma.19:01–24:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Confess Project Training Model and Crisis Intervention Lewis details The Confess Project's four-pillar curriculum and shares real-world crisis intervention examples. Raz validates the concept by introducing an apt CPR-advocacy analogy that Lewis affirms enthusiastically.24:19–26:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Engaging Clients in Natural Everyday Mental Health Conversations Raz asks whether clients push back against personal inquiries from barbers. Lewis clarifies that barbers already have organic personal relationships with their clients, so the curriculum simply structures conversations already taking place.26:51–29:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Historical Legacy and Intimacy of the Black Barbershop Raz asks what makes the barber chair uniquely intimate. Lewis provides a rich historical overview spanning from slavery and Civil Rights era organizing to modern public health campaigns like COVID-19 vaccinations in shops.29:44–33:10 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Expanding Nationwide and Developing a Sustainable Healthcare Model Raz pivots to the business sustainability of the social enterprise. Lewis explains their expanding joint venture model that integrates with healthcare reimbursement, Medicare/Medicaid billing, and academic research partnerships.33:11–35:05 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Long-Term Vision for an Inclusive Community Health Ecosystem Raz asks for Lewis's long-term 10-to-20-year vision. Lewis articulates a comprehensive health and community support ecosystem serving broader diverse populations while staying grounded in authentic representation.1:49–4:46 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Lorenzo Lewis on Childhood Trauma and Identity Struggle Guy Raz demonstrates thorough background research on Lewis's childhood, naming specific family members like Aunt Daisy and T-Roy. Lewis openly shares the emotional impact of growing up with incarcerated parents in a deeply collaborative atmosphere.4:49–7:56 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Juvenile Incarceration and the Decision to Change Paths Raz recounts specific biographical facts about Lewis's high school run-in with the law and juvenile detention. Lewis explains how avoiding a felony conviction served as a pivotal turning point to pursue higher education.7:58–11:46 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Recognizing Mental Health Gaps in Arkansas Youth Services Raz explores the challenges of addressing trauma among troubled youth and the limitations of traditional therapy. Lewis educates the host on the severe lack of African American psychiatric providers and how relatable lived experience is vital.11:48–19:00 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Exploring Grassroots Mental Health and Social Enterprise Models Lewis describes transitioning from corporate employment to grassroots organizing in Little Rock, starting with an under-attended library meeting before pivoting to barbershops. Raz relates via his own personal experience with therapy waiting room stigma.19:01–24:18 · Guy pushing back 1/10 The Confess Project Training Model and Crisis Intervention Lewis details The Confess Project's four-pillar curriculum and shares real-world crisis intervention examples. Raz validates the concept by introducing an apt CPR-advocacy analogy that Lewis affirms enthusiastically.24:19–26:35 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Engaging Clients in Natural Everyday Mental Health Conversations Raz asks whether clients push back against personal inquiries from barbers. Lewis clarifies that barbers already have organic personal relationships with their clients, so the curriculum simply structures conversations already taking place.26:51–29:42 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Historical Legacy and Intimacy of the Black Barbershop Raz asks what makes the barber chair uniquely intimate. Lewis provides a rich historical overview spanning from slavery and Civil Rights era organizing to modern public health campaigns like COVID-19 vaccinations in shops.29:44–33:10 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Expanding Nationwide and Developing a Sustainable Healthcare Model Raz pivots to the business sustainability of the social enterprise. Lewis explains their expanding joint venture model that integrates with healthcare reimbursement, Medicare/Medicaid billing, and academic research partnerships.33:11–35:05 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Long-Term Vision for an Inclusive Community Health Ecosystem Raz asks for Lewis's long-term 10-to-20-year vision. Lewis articulates a comprehensive health and community support ecosystem serving broader diverse populations while staying grounded in authentic representation.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 76.8% · guest 23.2%0:00 · Guy 76.8% · guest 23.2%3:00 · Guy 32.1% · guest 67.9%3:00 · Guy 32.1% · guest 67.9%6:00 · Guy 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Guy 29.4% · guest 70.6%9:00 · Guy 40.1% · guest 59.9%9:00 · Guy 40.1% · guest 59.9%12:00 · Guy 42.3% · guest 57.7%12:00 · Guy 42.3% · guest 57.7%15:00 · Guy 31.7% · guest 68.3%15:00 · Guy 31.7% · guest 68.3%18:00 · Guy 14.4% · guest 85.6%18:00 · Guy 14.4% · guest 85.6%21:00 · Guy 17.7% · guest 82.3%21:00 · Guy 17.7% · guest 82.3%24:00 · Guy 33.2% · guest 66.8%24:00 · Guy 33.2% · guest 66.8%27:00 · Guy 37.5% · guest 62.5%27:00 · Guy 37.5% · guest 62.5%30:00 · Guy 15.1% · guest 84.9%30:00 · Guy 15.1% · guest 84.9%33:00 · Guy 35.3% · guest 64.7%33:00 · Guy 35.3% · guest 64.7%36:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%36:00 · Guy 0% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 24:45 Lewis reframes question on intrusive probing

When Raz suggests clients might resist personal questions, Lewis gently pushes back against the premise, explaining that barbers already routinely discuss personal life events with their patrons.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 24:19 Raz presses on potential client boundary issues

Raz questions how barbers handle client irritation when asked personal questions, challenging whether customers might view mental health inquiries as intrusive.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:49 Lewis explains historical role of barbershops

Lewis educates Raz on the centuries-long lineage of the Black barbershop as an economic vehicle during slavery, a civil rights organizing hub, and a trusted public health venue.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 23:16 Raz synthesizes the model into a CPR analogy

Raz articulates an insightful analogy comparing The Confess Project's frontline barbers to community CPR responders preserving lives until professional medical specialists step in.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Lorenzo Lewis on Childhood Trauma and Identity Struggle 3100 Guy Raz demonstrates thorough background research on Lewis's childhood, naming specific family members like Aunt Daisy and T-Roy. Lewis openly shares the emotional impact of growing up with incarcerated parents in a deeply collaborative atmosphere.
Juvenile Incarceration and the Decision to Change Paths 3100 Raz recounts specific biographical facts about Lewis's high school run-in with the law and juvenile detention. Lewis explains how avoiding a felony conviction served as a pivotal turning point to pursue higher education.
Recognizing Mental Health Gaps in Arkansas Youth Services 3301 Raz explores the challenges of addressing trauma among troubled youth and the limitations of traditional therapy. Lewis educates the host on the severe lack of African American psychiatric providers and how relatable lived experience is vital.
Exploring Grassroots Mental Health and Social Enterprise Models 2200 Lewis describes transitioning from corporate employment to grassroots organizing in Little Rock, starting with an under-attended library meeting before pivoting to barbershops. Raz relates via his own personal experience with therapy waiting room stigma.
The Confess Project Training Model and Crisis Intervention 3301 Lewis details The Confess Project's four-pillar curriculum and shares real-world crisis intervention examples. Raz validates the concept by introducing an apt CPR-advocacy analogy that Lewis affirms enthusiastically.
Engaging Clients in Natural Everyday Mental Health Conversations 2212 Raz asks whether clients push back against personal inquiries from barbers. Lewis clarifies that barbers already have organic personal relationships with their clients, so the curriculum simply structures conversations already taking place.
Historical Legacy and Intimacy of the Black Barbershop 2400 Raz asks what makes the barber chair uniquely intimate. Lewis provides a rich historical overview spanning from slavery and Civil Rights era organizing to modern public health campaigns like COVID-19 vaccinations in shops.
Expanding Nationwide and Developing a Sustainable Healthcare Model 2300 Raz pivots to the business sustainability of the social enterprise. Lewis explains their expanding joint venture model that integrates with healthcare reimbursement, Medicare/Medicaid billing, and academic research partnerships.
Long-Term Vision for an Inclusive Community Health Ecosystem 1100 Raz asks for Lewis's long-term 10-to-20-year vision. Lewis articulates a comprehensive health and community support ecosystem serving broader diverse populations while staying grounded in authentic representation.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Supported
Lewis notes only 4% of US psychiatrists are African American
“When you think about four percent of psychiatrists are African Americans in the United States.”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 11:11
Assertion Partly supported
The Confess Project began as a library focus group, says Lewis
“Starting off with wanting to have one simple focus group of men to come around a table or so and talk about their problems. And it was just about how do you package this? And it just, it started with, let's just start here. And that was a focus group at a libr…”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 13:11
Insight
Clinical psychiatric facilities carry a stigma that deters patients, says Lewis
“One of the things that always takes place inside of these hospitals and facilities is that there's a stigma to that because of the locations involved, people being seen, people not wanting to.”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 16:06
Disclosure
The Confess Project relies on a four-point peer mental health curriculum
“So it is, you know, it's a four-tier model four-point model rather that's focused on active listening which is, you know, tied into being empathetic. Validation, you know, which is validating one's feelings, emotions positive communication, you know, teaching …”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 19:26
Opinion
Therapist shortages make neighborhood barbers vital mental health advocates, says Lewis
“We need more advocates that can You know, have these tools, because there's not enough culturally competent therapists, and so having a neighborhood barbershop, a barber that everyone knows, that works with our homeless neighbors, to our principals, to our cit…”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 23:55
Assertion Supported
Civil rights leaders used Black barbershops as voting organizing arenas
“And so it goes as even far back as you think about the civil rights era and, you know, and the Malden brothers and Dr. Martin Luther King and the NAACP utilize barbershops as a organizing arena for voting.”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 28:18
Assertion Supported
The Confess Project trained 2,000 barbers across 28 states by 2022
“As of December 31st, twenty-twenty-two, we had trained 2000 barbers across 48 cities and 28 states.”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 29:52
Disclosure
The Confess Project is opening its first billable clinic in Atlanta
“We're Really honing in in the city of Atlanta, where this will be our first clinic to provide these services through care coordination and patient navigation, but it will allow us to do billing particularly, and to be reimbursed for our time beyond the barbers…”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 31:41
Disclosure
The Confess Project is expanding its mental health services to all demographics
“And now as we get into this new model, we will serve more than just people of color. You know, it obviously, you know, a lot of these the different financial sources are geared towards supporting more people outside of Just Black people. So the Confess Project…”
Lorenzo Lewis Mar 2, 2023 ▶ 33:34
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 800 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more