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Jul 17, 2025 · 39m · how-i-built-this

Advice Line with Justin McLeod of Hinge

Guy Raz · 13m spoken Justin McLeod · 10m spoken Jessica Off · 4m spoken Chandler Withington · 3m spoken Nick Kelly · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Guy Raz and Hinge founder Justin McLeod team up on The Advice Line to provide strategic guidance to early-stage entrepreneurs on regional scaling, word-of-mouth marketing, and converting offline passion into direct-to-consumer digital sales.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 37.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 Guy pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:06–6:18 · Guy as informed peer 4/10 Welcome to The Advice Line and Listener Guidelines Guy Raz and Justin McLeod engage in a peer-level discussion about screen addiction, dating culture, and the loneliness epidemic. McLeod reframes Raz's premise of going back to pre-screen norms as a false dichotomy, comparing modern social wellness to historical shifts in dietary wellness.6:19–16:10 · Guy as informed peer 5/10 Guess Where Trips: Scaling Mystery Road Trips Beyond Core Markets Caller Jessica Off seeks advice on expanding her mystery road trip business outside Ontario. Raz demonstrates his entrepreneurial knowledge by citing Sara Blakely's grassroots tactic of buying her own Spanx off shelves to build buzz, while McLeod advises depth over breadth.16:21–26:37 · Guy as informed peer 6/10 Framework Doors: Driving Word-of-Mouth Inquiries for Security Doors Nick Kelly seeks strategies to accelerate word-of-mouth inquiries for bespoke security doors. Raz offers several proactive marketing ideas including referral discounts on back doors, garden store partnerships, and mobile truck displays.26:52–36:56 · Guy as informed peer 6/10 Archive 22: Translating In-Person Art Storytelling to Online Conversions Chandler Withington asks how to convey his hand-drawn sports history art online. Raz pushes back on relying solely on the founder's personal story, arguing that DTC conversions rely on connecting directly with the fan's emotional identity and exploring apparel extensions.0:06–6:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Welcome to The Advice Line and Listener Guidelines Guy Raz and Justin McLeod engage in a peer-level discussion about screen addiction, dating culture, and the loneliness epidemic. McLeod reframes Raz's premise of going back to pre-screen norms as a false dichotomy, comparing modern social wellness to historical shifts in dietary wellness.6:19–16:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Guess Where Trips: Scaling Mystery Road Trips Beyond Core Markets Caller Jessica Off seeks advice on expanding her mystery road trip business outside Ontario. Raz demonstrates his entrepreneurial knowledge by citing Sara Blakely's grassroots tactic of buying her own Spanx off shelves to build buzz, while McLeod advises depth over breadth.16:21–26:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Framework Doors: Driving Word-of-Mouth Inquiries for Security Doors Nick Kelly seeks strategies to accelerate word-of-mouth inquiries for bespoke security doors. Raz offers several proactive marketing ideas including referral discounts on back doors, garden store partnerships, and mobile truck displays.26:52–36:56 · Guest teaching 3/10 Archive 22: Translating In-Person Art Storytelling to Online Conversions Chandler Withington asks how to convey his hand-drawn sports history art online. Raz pushes back on relying solely on the founder's personal story, arguing that DTC conversions rely on connecting directly with the fan's emotional identity and exploring apparel extensions.0:06–6:18 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Welcome to The Advice Line and Listener Guidelines Guy Raz and Justin McLeod engage in a peer-level discussion about screen addiction, dating culture, and the loneliness epidemic. McLeod reframes Raz's premise of going back to pre-screen norms as a false dichotomy, comparing modern social wellness to historical shifts in dietary wellness.6:19–16:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Guess Where Trips: Scaling Mystery Road Trips Beyond Core Markets Caller Jessica Off seeks advice on expanding her mystery road trip business outside Ontario. Raz demonstrates his entrepreneurial knowledge by citing Sara Blakely's grassroots tactic of buying her own Spanx off shelves to build buzz, while McLeod advises depth over breadth.16:21–26:37 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Framework Doors: Driving Word-of-Mouth Inquiries for Security Doors Nick Kelly seeks strategies to accelerate word-of-mouth inquiries for bespoke security doors. Raz offers several proactive marketing ideas including referral discounts on back doors, garden store partnerships, and mobile truck displays.26:52–36:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Archive 22: Translating In-Person Art Storytelling to Online Conversions Chandler Withington asks how to convey his hand-drawn sports history art online. Raz pushes back on relying solely on the founder's personal story, arguing that DTC conversions rely on connecting directly with the fan's emotional identity and exploring apparel extensions.0:06–6:18 · Guy pushing back 2/10 Welcome to The Advice Line and Listener Guidelines Guy Raz and Justin McLeod engage in a peer-level discussion about screen addiction, dating culture, and the loneliness epidemic. McLeod reframes Raz's premise of going back to pre-screen norms as a false dichotomy, comparing modern social wellness to historical shifts in dietary wellness.6:19–16:10 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Guess Where Trips: Scaling Mystery Road Trips Beyond Core Markets Caller Jessica Off seeks advice on expanding her mystery road trip business outside Ontario. Raz demonstrates his entrepreneurial knowledge by citing Sara Blakely's grassroots tactic of buying her own Spanx off shelves to build buzz, while McLeod advises depth over breadth.16:21–26:37 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Framework Doors: Driving Word-of-Mouth Inquiries for Security Doors Nick Kelly seeks strategies to accelerate word-of-mouth inquiries for bespoke security doors. Raz offers several proactive marketing ideas including referral discounts on back doors, garden store partnerships, and mobile truck displays.26:52–36:56 · Guy pushing back 3/10 Archive 22: Translating In-Person Art Storytelling to Online Conversions Chandler Withington asks how to convey his hand-drawn sports history art online. Raz pushes back on relying solely on the founder's personal story, arguing that DTC conversions rely on connecting directly with the fan's emotional identity and exploring apparel extensions.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 67.3% · guest 32.7%0:00 · Guy 67.3% · guest 32.7%3:00 · Guy 35.4% · guest 64.6%3:00 · Guy 35.4% · guest 64.6%6:00 · Guy 27.2% · guest 72.8%6:00 · Guy 27.2% · guest 72.8%9:00 · Guy 7.2% · guest 92.8%9:00 · Guy 7.2% · guest 92.8%12:00 · Guy 28.9% · guest 71.1%12:00 · Guy 28.9% · guest 71.1%15:00 · Guy 41.1% · guest 58.9%15:00 · Guy 41.1% · guest 58.9%18:00 · Guy 17.7% · guest 82.3%18:00 · Guy 17.7% · guest 82.3%21:00 · Guy 57.1% · guest 42.9%21:00 · Guy 57.1% · guest 42.9%24:00 · Guy 56.9% · guest 43.1%24:00 · Guy 56.9% · guest 43.1%27:00 · Guy 26.7% · guest 73.3%27:00 · Guy 26.7% · guest 73.3%30:00 · Guy 20.1% · guest 79.9%30:00 · Guy 20.1% · guest 79.9%33:00 · Guy 42.5% · guest 57.5%33:00 · Guy 42.5% · guest 57.5%36:00 · Guy 50.7% · guest 49.3%36:00 · Guy 50.7% · guest 49.3%39:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%39:00 · Guy 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:23 Rejecting the Premise of Going Back

McLeod directly challenges Raz's question about returning to pre-screen human habits, labeling it a false dichotomy and arguing society must instead develop social wellness frameworks.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 32:30 Reframing the Sales Narrative

Raz redirects Withington's marketing focus away from his personal founder backstory, insisting that commercial traction requires leading with the fan's emotional connection to their team.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:40 Brain Junk Food and Social Health

McLeod educates Raz on the cultural trajectory of screen usage by drawing a parallel to how fast-food culture gave rise to the physical wellness movement.

 Guy holds their own ▶ 13:04 Citing Spanx Grassroots Strategy

Raz leverages his extensive knowledge of startup history to propose a concrete word-of-mouth strategy modeled on Sara Blakely paying friends to buy Spanx.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Welcome to The Advice Line and Listener Guidelines 4422 Guy Raz and Justin McLeod engage in a peer-level discussion about screen addiction, dating culture, and the loneliness epidemic. McLeod reframes Raz's premise of going back to pre-screen norms as a false dichotomy, comparing modern social wellness to historical shifts in dietary wellness.
Guess Where Trips: Scaling Mystery Road Trips Beyond Core Markets 5211 Caller Jessica Off seeks advice on expanding her mystery road trip business outside Ontario. Raz demonstrates his entrepreneurial knowledge by citing Sara Blakely's grassroots tactic of buying her own Spanx off shelves to build buzz, while McLeod advises depth over breadth.
Framework Doors: Driving Word-of-Mouth Inquiries for Security Doors 6201 Nick Kelly seeks strategies to accelerate word-of-mouth inquiries for bespoke security doors. Raz offers several proactive marketing ideas including referral discounts on back doors, garden store partnerships, and mobile truck displays.
Archive 22: Translating In-Person Art Storytelling to Online Conversions 6323 Chandler Withington asks how to convey his hand-drawn sports history art online. Raz pushes back on relying solely on the founder's personal story, arguing that DTC conversions rely on connecting directly with the fan's emotional identity and exploring apparel extensions.

Statements from this episode (6)

Assertion Partly supported
McLeod: Screen time replaced 70% of time spent with friends
“If you look at the loneliness epidemic, and you actually look over the last 20 years at the amount of time people spend on their screens, we've almost completely displaced in real life time spent with our friends with time spent looking at screens. About 70% o…”
Justin McLeod Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 1:59
Prediction Not checkable as stated
McLeod: AI will replace swiping with natural language preference matching
“I'm actually quite excited about the possibilities that we're now seeing because of AI, which I think will even further our ability to help people spend less time on our app and more time out on great dates. It will allow people Instead of communicating to us …”
Justin McLeod Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 5:48
Disclosure
McLeod: Hinge launched new cities using waitlists and single-event tipping points
“Well, in Hinge's day, we started originally in Washington, D.C., There was a lot of movement between, like, DC and New York, and so people in New York would start to hear about it, but we wouldn't let anyone in until, because we had such a network effects prod…”
Justin McLeod Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 11:04
Insight
McLeod: Companies should win one market at a time over broad expansion
“Yeah, and we have this principle at Hinge of kind of depth over breadth, and we always You know, it's hard to try to cover up for weakness by just like expanding more like, oh, like that market's not working. Let's just launch more markets. So thinking, thinki…”
Justin McLeod Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 12:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Withington: Bryson DeChambeau bought Archive 22 art after 2024 US Open win
“The gentleman who won the 2024 U.S. Open was Bryson DeChambeau, and we learned later that when he went through Pinehurst, this was the one thing that he purchased from the club because his name was on it. So it's hanging in his house.”
Chandler Withington Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 33:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
McLeod: No VC would invest in Hinge during its product relaunch
“When we did the relaunch, you know, my first instinct was obviously to, like, go raise money. So I was talking to every VC, but no one would give me money.”
Justin McLeod Jul 17, 2025 ▶ 38:03
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