Mar 3, 2022 · 50m · catalyst
Unlocking hyper-efficient cooling
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, guest host Laura Pierpoint and cleantech expert Jesse Rivest examine the urgent technological, economic, and policy challenges of decarbonizing global air conditioning. They explore breakthrough cooling architectures like liquid desiccants and heat pumps, alongside business innovations such as Cooling-as-a-Service to overcome market inertia and high upfront costs.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 5.2 Guest disagreement 1.1 Shayle pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:57 Guest rejecting ice storage as an efficiency solution
Jesse counters Laura's suggestion by firmly distinguishing between electricity load shifting and actual energy efficiency or CO2 reduction.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 25:10 Host challenging guest's payback timeline claimLaura directly questions Jesse's assertion of two-to-five year payback periods, asking if the most efficient market options actually take much longer or fail to pay back.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:10 Guest explaining overcooling and reheating dynamicsJesse walks the host through the counterintuitive mechanical process of chilling air down to 50 degrees to remove humidity and then heating it back to 70 degrees for comfort.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 45:58 Host highlighting wildfire smoke constraints on ventilationLaura demonstrates practical environmental expertise by challenging outdoor ventilation strategies with the reality of western wildfire smoke seasons.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| The Untapped Potential and History of Energy Efficiency | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Host Laura Pierpoint delivers a solo opening monologue explaining the McKinsey abatement curve and IEA efficiency metrics. As a monologue, all interactive dynamics and host-side exchange scores are set to zero. | |
| Rising Cooling Demand and the Vicious Climate Cycle | 4 | 5 | 1 | 0 | The host sets up the framing around climate adaptation and heat waves, prompting the guest to outline planetary cooling needs. Jesse Rivest explains the vicious feedback loop of emissions and cooling demand growth. | |
| Breaking Down Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Air Conditioning | 5 | 6 | 1 | 0 | The host demonstrates clear domain knowledge about high global warming potential gases, while the guest breaks down the exact emission proportions (manufacturing, refrigerant leakage, and electricity consumption). | |
| The Physics of Cooling and Inefficient Humidity Management | 5 | 7 | 2 | 1 | Jesse Rivest explains the thermodynamics of vapor compression and reveals the inefficient practice of overcooling air to 50 degrees Fahrenheit to extract moisture before reheating to 70 degrees. Laura engages actively with this surprising mechanical inefficiency. | |
| Next-Generation Humidity Solutions and Desiccant Technology | 4 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Laura asks targeted questions regarding engineering constraints on desiccant systems. Jesse explains the logistical challenges of solid desiccant wheels and why liquid desiccants show significant technical promise. | |
| Alternative Cooling Technologies and Peak Load Management | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Laura raises ice storage as a potential cooling solution, prompting Jesse to clarify that ice is primarily a grid peak-load shifting mechanism rather than an inherent efficiency gain. | |
| Electrification Policies and Heat Pump Adoption Cycles | 5 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Jesse details how natural gas furnace phase-out mandates in states like California trigger out-of-cycle heat pump replacements, which Laura synthesizes as an unexpected virtuous cycle. | |
| Consumer Economics and CapEx Barriers to Efficient Cooling | 5 | 5 | 2 | 3 | Laura probes whether ultra-efficient cooling units truly have short 2-to-5 year payback periods. Jesse admits the most extreme efficient options may never financially pay back, reinforcing the dominant barrier of upfront CapEx. | |
| Sponsor Messages: Bloom Energy and Engie | 5 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Following mid-roll sponsor spots, the dialogue covers regulatory standards such as SEER, ASHRAE, and AHRI 920. Jesse explains why residential standards fail to address complex commercial systems or humidity metrics. | |
| Cooling-as-a-Service and Office Comfort Dynamics | 5 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Laura asks if Cooling-as-a-Service is a silver bullet, and shares humorous anecdotes about office thermostat battles. Jesse explains how proper humidity control widens human temperature comfort bands. | |
| Corporate Net-Zero Goals, Split Incentives, and Utility Roles | 6 | 5 | 1 | 1 | The discussion analyzes corporate net-zero targets, cheap carbon offsets, split landlord-tenant incentives, and utility load-shedding rebates. Both host and guest contribute complementary systemic solutions. | |
| Indoor Air Quality, Ventilation, and Efficiency Trade-offs | 5 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Jesse outlines the post-pandemic conflict between increased ventilation for indoor air quality and energy consumption. Laura pushes back by noting wildfire smoke limits outdoor air intake in western states. | |
| Xerox PARC's Clean Tech Innovation and Commercialization | 4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Jesse provides the history of Xerox PARC's invention legacy and details current cleantech commercialization pathways, ending the interview on a cordial note. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Pierpoint: 2021 Global Energy Efficiency Growth Fell to 1.9%, Lagging Net-Zero Goals
“In 2021, the International Energy Agency estimated that efficiency improved by about 1.9%. That's less than half the rate that's required to meet global net zero targets by 20 50. Furthermore, that rate actually represents some backsliding, because in 2011 to …”
Rivest: Energy consumption from cooling will at least triple by 2050
“It depends upon how other sectors grow, but we know that cooling will at least triple in energy consumption between now and twenty-fifty.”
Rivest: Air conditioning emissions are 60% electricity, 35% refrigerants, 5% embodied
“There are three major components. One is having to do with the manufacturing and transport of those, and sort of the embodied emissions. And that's about five percent of the emissions that we see coming from air conditioners. There's another 35% that comes fro…”
Rivest: Commercial ACs overcool air to 50°F before reheating to 70°F
“So what air conditioners do today in a nice commercial building in the U.S. Is they cool air from 90 degrees down to 50 degrees Fahrenheit to get it really, really dry, and then they heat it back up to 70 degrees to make it a comfortable temperature.”
Rivest: Humidity management uses over half of AC electricity on average
“But it turns out that humidity is using on average a little bit more than half of the electricity of our air conditioner.”
Rivest: Alternative cooling technologies are not close to commercial market deployment
“So between new types of heat pumps, solid state heat pumps low global warming potential, refrigerants, and water evaporative cooling, There are other options up and coming, but certainly not on the market or about to be on the market.”
Rivest: Air conditioning is the leading cause of electrical grid blackouts
“I don't know if ice solves the electricity consumption and CO two emissions part of the problem, but it certainly solves a really important problem about air conditioning, which is that air conditioners are the number one cause of blackouts on the electrical g…”
Rivest: Natural gas and fuel oil remain cheaper than heat pumps across most of the US
“It's much cheaper today in, in most parts of the U.S. To use natural gas or fuel oil to create the heat that you need if what you're looking for is heating.”
Rivest: Heat pump mandates accelerate the retirement of inefficient air conditioners
“What I think is really interesting about all these heat pumps coming online for heating purposes to replace natural gas is that this disrupts the sales cycle of air conditioners as well as a side benefit. So now you have air conditioners, which would last for …”
Rivest: Efficient Cooling Delivers 2-to-5-Year Paybacks but Buyers Fixate on CapEx
“Because we're used to looking at most, if not all, of these energy efficiency technologies as capital expenditure rather than total cost of ownership, it becomes difficult to incentivize people even though the economics say, yes, of course you should do that. …”
Rivest: Air Conditioner Buyers Globally Always Buy the Cheapest Unit
“While there's a range of air conditioning efficiency available on the market, by and large, people buy the very cheapest thing they can buy. In rich countries, in poor countries, they're buying the cheapest thing they can buy.”
Rivest: Some Ultra-Efficient Cooling Systems Never Pay Themselves Back
“There are certainly options for much, much more efficient systems that would never pay themselves back.”
Rivest: SEER air conditioning ratings completely ignore humidity management efficiency
“Also, the SEER rating does not comprehend the humidity management. So whether you're managing humidity very efficiently or not efficiently at all doesn't impact the SEER rating.”
Rivest: Local efficiency mandates drive down global costs for high-efficiency HVAC
“Once companies start making it for one country in a much more efficient standard, the costs get driven down in that, and it's easier for them to distribute globally.”
Rivest: Air conditioning causes roughly 4% of global emissions, twice aviation
“So I mentioned at the beginning that we're around four percent of greenhouse gas emissions for air conditioners globally, and that's a big number. I think most of the people who are listening to this podcast will be well calibrated to that number, but It's clo…”
Rivest: Indoor CO2 levels above 700 PPM impair strategic decision-making
“People were looking at how CO₂ levels were impacting the cognitive function of building occupants, and seeing that strategic decision making and deep thinking were really impeded by Higher levels of CO two. And by higher, I mean like, 700 or 800 PPM. Not reall…”
Rivest: Productivity gains from clean air outweigh building energy and rent savings
“There were a lot of seminal papers out of Harvard talking about this and making the argument that the more productive you can make your space, it totally pays for itself if you could somehow measure that productivity. It's much it's much more impactful on the …”