Mar 5, 2026 · 37m · catalyst
Digging deep for super hot geothermal
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of Catalyst, host Shayle Kann speaks with Quaise Energy CEO Carlos Araque to explore how drilling into super-hot rock can unlock ubiquitous, clean baseload geothermal power. They examine the supercritical physics of 800-degree Fahrenheit water, millimeter-wave drilling innovations, and Quaise's phased commercial deployment roadmap.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shayle holds 33.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shayle as informed peer 5.9 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 1.9 Shayle pushing back 2.5
speaking balance: gold is Shayle, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 7:00 Araque rejects depth-centric framing
Araque directly counters the assumption that oil and gas cannot drill deep enough, asserting that depth is already solved and heat is the real constraint.
Hardest push from Shayle ▶ 26:33 Kann highlights contradiction on drilling difficultyKann points out an apparent inconsistency between Araque claiming drilling is the primary hurdle while simultaneously relying on 50 pre-existing drilled wells.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:39 Araque details supercritical fluid thermodynamicsAraque breaks down the physics of 800-degree water density and viscosity changes, explaining why 10x electric power is unlocked per wellbore.
Shayle holds their own ▶ 2:15 Kann maps clean baseload power bottlenecksKann articulates the distinct geographic and capital limits across hydro, nuclear, and conventional geothermal systems before introducing deep geothermal.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shayle as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shayle pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Baseload Clean Power and the Geothermal Frontier | 6 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Kann opens with a knowledgeable breakdown of baseload clean power limits (hydro, nuclear, traditional geothermal) before asking Araque to contrast conventional hydrothermal depths with deep geothermal. Araque politely provides specific temperature and depth differences. | |
| The 800-Degree Target and Global Geological Depths | 5 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Araque reframes the issue around temperature targets rather than pure depth limits, explaining that 800 degrees Fahrenheit is the thermodynamic sweet spot. He clarifies how oil and gas drilling is temperature-limited rather than depth-limited. | |
| Thermodynamics, Power Density, and Subsurface Rock Permeability | 6 | 5 | 2 | 3 | Kann synthesizes the trade-offs of 10x higher power output versus drilling costs and queries subsurface permeability at extreme depths. Araque explains lost circulation events and natural critical fracturing, leading Kann to press on whether this has ever been proven in the field. | |
| Drilling Frontiers vs. Fracturing Engineering Challenges | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Kann outlines the core technical bifurcations (drilling vs novel hydraulic fracturing), asking if there are other unconsidered technical hurdles. Araque argues that drilling physics is the main hurdle since natural rock fracturing is geologically precedented. | |
| Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages: Bloom Energy, Engie, Energy Hub | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Following mid-roll sponsor reads, Kann asks about downhole equipment survivability (casings, electronics, cements). Araque systematically explains how steam-assisted gravity drainage in oil and gas already solved shallow high-temp hurdles. | |
| Commercial Strategy and Leveraging Pre-Existing Well Sites | 7 | 4 | 3 | 5 | Kann questions how a startup can afford 10-to-50 million dollar wells. When Araque reveals they are re-entering pre-existing drilled wells in Oregon, Kann catches an apparent contradiction with earlier statements about drilling being the hard part, forcing Araque to clarify shallow versus deep distinctions. | |
| Unit Economics, LCOE Drivers, and Millimeter-Wave Drilling | 6 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Kann probes the LCOE breakdown and drilling speeds associated with millimeter-wave drilling. Araque explains that non-productive trip time dominates deep drilling economics rather than instantaneous penetration speed. | |
| Flow Testing Milestones and Commercial Deployment Roadmap | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Kann asks for commercial deployment milestones, focusing on flow testing. He challenges why Quaze would pursue riskier deeper wells if a 3-mile shallow supercritical well already proves commercially viable, prompting Araque to explain their project spin-out model. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Kann: Proven clean baseload power is limited to hydro, nuclear, and geothermal
“The list of clean baseload power generation sources is sadly pretty short, and as far as proven technologies go, sorry, wave power, is really just hydro, nuclear, and geothermal.”
Kann: Enhanced geothermal systems are realistically limited to the US West
“For enhanced geothermal systems, EGS, those rules are relaxed a bit, but realistically, we're still talking about a swath of the West in the United States, for example.”
Araque: Traditional hydrothermal wells reach at most a mile deep at sub-boiling temperatures
“For traditional hydrothermal not, not very deep at all. You're going maybe a mile at most, and you're getting as hot as what the water that's down there gets you. It's usually sub-boiling. It's hard to get to boiling temperatures. You're talking about 200 degr…”
Araque: 800-degree Fahrenheit rock exists between 3 and 12 miles deep globally
“Always looking for 800 Fahrenheit, and you'll find it anywhere between three miles to 12 miles deep, depending on where you are in the world.”
Araque: Oil and gas drilling is limited by temperature, not depth
“Oil and gas systems are not depth limited. They are temperature limited. You will find people drilling with mechanical drilling systems all the way down to eight miles, nine miles, pushing really out there, but not hot, right? So the gap is not depth. The gap …”
Araque: Existing geothermal regions reach 800°F closer to 3 miles deep
“Everywhere where you have geothermal today is very likely one of those places where you'll find the 800 degrees Fahrenheit at three miles, closer to three miles than closer to 12 miles.”
Araque: 800°F Geothermal Wells Transfer 10x More Power Than 200°F Wells
“So at the end of the day, the same wellbore, let's call it eight inch in diameter, very typical size it will transfer maybe one to 10 megawatts electric equivalent. If it's flowing at 200 degrees Fahrenheit, I will transfer 10 times that if it's flowing at 800…”
Araque: Drilling super-hot geothermal is a vastly larger hurdle than fracturing
“The drilling by far outweighs the fracturing. The fracturing does happen in nature. We see this in nature every time a hydrothermal vent or a mine forms. This is the process by which it does so. So there's evidence in the geological record that The fracture in…”
Araque: Shallow super-hot geothermal requires only incremental oil-and-gas hardware evolution
“So talking about the shallow ones, it's incremental improvements. There's a lot of precedence already in oil and gas. There's something in oil and gas called SAGD, steam-assisted gravity drainage, which injects steams, steam at temperatures up to 600 degrees F…”
Araque: Quaise is securing a take-or-pay PPA for its first project
“So we're already getting into market. In that location with a real take or pay PPA because we know that we can point to all of the solutions with precedent.”
Araque: Over 50 super-hot geothermal wells have been drilled worldwide
“And just like that location, I can point to more than 50 wells drilling the world by people looking for super hot hydrothermal systems that are going to be in the three to four mile range and are going to be in the 600 to 800 degrees Fahrenheit. Some of them a…”
Araque: Super-hot geothermal will achieve $50 to $100 per MWh globally
“The higher outputs will be a big part of bringing those LCOEs down, and we see a hundred dollars per megawatt hour at the meter, no matter where you are in the world. Now, that includes the shallow and the deep systems. If you look specifically at the shallow …”
Araque: Non-productive downtime matters far more than instantaneous drilling speed
“A lot of people overemphasize instantaneous speed, like, oh, we can drill a hundred meters per hour instantaneously, but that matters less than your consistency. So non-productive time in drilling is what starts to take over your drilling economics. You start …”
Araque: China's 11-km borehole took an entire year for the final kilometer
“The Chinese recently did an eleven-kilometer haul, and I'm switching units because they, it's been reporting those units. So, about eight miles deep. The first 10 kilometers took a year to drill, and the last one kilometer took another year to drill.”
Araque: Quaise will achieve 25-30 MW EGS flow test by end of 2026
“For us in particular, the project in Oregon gets that flow test by the end of this year. By the end of twenty-twenty-six, Quaze has a commercial-grade Injector producer per EGS system producing 25 to 30 megawatt equivalent electric output from a flow test.”
Araque: Quaise will run first supercritical geothermal flow test by 2028
“From there in twenty-twenty-eight, so two years later, we'll do another version of that, that is not at three miles, but a little bit deeper and above the 400 degrees Celsius or so. We're basically walking up the temperatures of that site to unlock those outpu…”