The Exchanges

Q want people to get today, is how to take these core ideas that lead to a disciplined And in some ways more beautiful life because of that discipline and get it simply. And so you had this great quote that I loved, which is, when you're lacking motivation, remind yourself, discipline now, freedom later, the labor will pass and the rewards will last. Can you tell me more about that?

A Yeah, there's a line from one of the great Stoic teachers, his name was Musonius Rufus, and he said, you know, when you do something in pursuit of pleasure, or you're taking a shortcut, like, the benefit that you get from that, uh, passes quickly, but the shame or the consequence of it lasts, and he says, conversely, when you do something hard, the labor passes quickly, but, like, the good from that remains. Like, when you work out, it's painful in the moment, When you get in a cold plunge, it's unpleasant at first. You know, when you get up early, you're tired. When you work an extra hour, you know, that's, that there's a, a cost to that. But the benefits, the benefits, they not just endure, in many cases, way off in the future, the pleasures or the benefits that you experience are a lagging indicator from that. And so, if, if we want to think of, of discipline Like, discipline is, or self-discipline anyway, is about constraint. Do this, don't do that, not, that's hard, but it provides you the freedom down the road, because you either have some financial security, you have strength, you have confidence, you have health, whatever the thing you're, Delaying gratification for, well, at some point you do get that gratification, and it's a more sustainable, enduring, and stronger reward than whatever you would like to get in this moment.

AI assessment note: “there's a line from one of the great Stoic teachers, his name was Musonius Rufus”

Q So I want to talk about that. So what is your process? To do that.

A Well, I, I read a lot. Um, that's, like, I see myself as, like, a professional reader. That's my job. Um, and, and then, um, I don't leave it there. Like, I read with a pen, and I take notes, and then I transfer those notes. I was, I was, just before this, I was, I just read something for a book I'm writing, and taking that, and I'm transferring it to note cards by hand, and it's, it's, Not quick, and it is not scalable, but that is like the whole point. I think sometimes we look for technological solutions to make things easy, and the whole point is some things are supposed to be hard. You know, it's supposed to be difficult, and it is in the difficult part that you're scratching it into the steel, and then it's there. So, um, I, I do, I take advantage of all sorts of new tools, of course, um, AI being one of them, but My, my research method is as analog and as old school as it can be because I'm trying to actually understand what I'm dealing with.

AI assessment note: “I read with a pen, and I take notes, and then I transfer those notes”

Q there, I'm not gonna be like that. It'll be different when I'm there. But if instead you can really look down the hall and go, like, is, if I had lived that man's life, I would probably be that man. And so, am I sure that that's what I want? If I can look into the future and see, is that the kind of suit that I want to wear?

A Yeah, the system is shaping you every day that you are in it. And you are internalizing its values and its, uh, personality and its identity. And the idea that, like, yeah, that you're gonna go along to get along for 40 years and then be a visionary, rule-breaking leader is extremely unlikely. Like, you, you just followed the rules for 40 years to get this thing that you're now Terrified of losing. You're actually gonna be less courageous, more risk averse than you thought you would be. Like, you're like, if I was in charge, it would be different. And it's like, no, it's gonna be exactly the same because it was shaping you as you were in it.

AI assessment note: “the system is shaping you every day that you are in it”

Q And so how do we get it, and why, why is that the key? What does history and your experience tell us?

A You know, most of the big Things in my life came from lots of thinking or concentration. I had an epiphany. I had an insight. I had an idea. I worked really hard on a problem, and then you go, well, If that's really the big mover, right? Um, I mean, like, even the number of ideas that I've had on vacation or on walks with my family, I go, if I didn't have the discipline to put my work down and go for a hike, my, my, my, the last series I did, I, I had, I had the idea on a hike with my kids. And so, how are you setting the, the, the events in motion so that thing can happen, right? And I think people know that, like, You know, creativity and problem solving requires focus, and then you go, okay, but when I look at your calendar, you were all meetings all day, all week. Of course you, you haven't been having ideas, right? Of course you haven't been having those conversations that unlock something, and also, of course you aren't happy. Like, this isn't what you're meant to do. You're not meant to be on Zoom calls all day. This sucks, right? And so, I, I think, Like, when I look at my calendar, I was just talking to my assistant about this, like, it, Their job is to keep things out of the calendar, not put things in the calendar. Like the, like the calendar should have large amounts of white space in my opinion. And that that's not because I'm not working. It's because I haven't sc…

AI assessment note: “Their job is to keep things out of the calendar, not put things in”

Q Two sons. Yeah. So, you know, for them coming into young men, let's say, what are the books that you will set, you know, on their desk as they come into being, you know, young men that you would want them to raise?

A That's a good question. I haven't, I haven't come up with the reading list yet because they're, they're still pretty young, but we spent a lot of time when they were young You know, look, children, children's books are great, and they're all about pizza and monkeys and, you know, ridiculous shit, and I, I love that, right? There's nothing better than your kids, like, having fun reading, like, Adam Rubin has this book called The High Five Book. Have you seen this one where you're, like, smacking it? You know, like, I, they, they have this one right now that they love called, like, the, the, the dumb guide to all the stupid birds in the world, and it's just filled with, like, cursing. They, I love all that stuff, but, I think there's, that's not why we read to our kids, right? Like we, we read to our kids to instill them lessons and to teach them how to be a person in the world. And so we, we spent a lot of time with the sort of myths and stories and fables, you know, like Aesop's fables operate on these incredible multitude of levels, right? Like to them, it's a funny story about a fox and grapes and To you, it's, it's a lesson about not being jealous or, um, you know, abandoning what you have and, you know, cause you want something else or writing off what someone else has. What I, what I mean is that I try to go to the things that contain wisdom that, that maybe they don't ful…

AI assessment note: “I haven't come up with the reading list yet because they're still pretty young”