The Exchanges

Q a differentiation. And I'm curious if somebody out there right now is like, I want to infuse a little soul into my personal brand. I want to infuse a little uniqueness. What are the things that you're like, here are a few thoughts or tips for somebody who doesn't want to die in the sea of sameness? Could be aesthetic, or it could be verbal, or it could be written.

A Number one, the easiest thing that you can do to insert a little soul is to say, what are cliches that everyone in my space is already saying? And just make a long list. What are phrases, expressions, and then what you do, and this is like from advertising copywriting, Take a common phrase, a cliche, and then do something with it. So you'll take a phrase and you just flip it a little bit. So that expression, here's an example, it's from The Economist magazine, some of the best copywriting in the world. Something like the expression of great minds think alike. We've all heard it. If I said it, you're like, yeah, and then what? So they just took that expression, changed it just a little bit by changing the order of the words. Great minds like a think. And it's enough for you to be like, what? And years before he was involved in politics, they had this line that says, Trump, Donald. Beat the man in his game. Because this is a magazine for tycoons and entrepreneurs and intellectuals. So they had so many lines in there, I'm like, wow. So find what the cliches are, look at them, stare at them, and play with them, stretch them, bend them, change the order, change the word, make it rhyme with something else, and then you now have an asset. That people will then refer to you, and when we're building brands, we don't just think about building your brand, we build worlds. The more assets …

AI assessment note: “the easiest thing that you can do to insert a little soul is to say”

Q said, you know, I know the manipulation and tactics that go into pricing these luxury things, but then once you bought them, you felt differently. And so I guess my question for you there is, What is the manipulation that you see go into really expensive items so that we can decide if we still want to buy them or not? It's not right or wrong. It's just, should we?

A Yeah, Seth Godin wrote a great book on this, and it says all marketers are liars, and we the consumer are complicit in the lie. We want to be lied to because the human mind loves the story, right? So if I showed you this amazing painting and told you someone in your family acquired it, and they passed away, and they've bequeathed it to you in their will, and it's a Jackson Pollock. They bought it when they're, you know, whatever, at a flea market somewhere in the Netherlands one day, And you're like, oh my god, I have a Jackson Pollock. How much is that painting worth? Tens of millions of dollars. And then they're like, oh, my bad. That was just a painter's tarp to spill over paint. You're like, how much is that worth? And you're like, not a lot. Actually, it's kind of taken space. I need to throw it away. No, I was just kidding. It's a Jackson pot. Oh, ok, it's worth. So just understanding the story behind something changes your perceived value so much. And if I were to do this in a workshop context, you'll see the pendulum swing from trash to like cash and back and forth. It's just about the story. So if we want to build a really great brand, whether you're buying into a brand, or you are creating the brand, you need to make sure you learn how to tell that story. A story that's compelling, because the better the story, the better the brand. So that's one thing. Number two is …

AI assessment note: “understanding the story behind something changes your perceived value so much. And if I were to do this”

Q I'm not a yapper. All the things, right? But it's really hard to, uh, sell a Zale diamond at a Tiffany's price with the Zale brand. And so I think brand in general is something that feels fuzzy, but is so important. So I guess, can you lay out in your mind what is important about brand, personal or otherwise, and why should everyone be really conscious of their brand?

A A lot of people would say, like, all the action and the activity and the heat is in marketing because it could be measured. There's an ROI. You put money in, you put money, you can take money out. When it doesn't work, it's very clear. Is a brand just about impressions and feeling? And is it about a vibe? And it can be much more scientific than that. Here's how, here's what we know. When you buy a t-shirt and there's no brand attached to it, like literally it's in a plastic bag with three shirts, what are you gonna pay? You're going to pay the utility price of the three t-shirts. In theory, the cotton, the construction and the packaging, the shipping to a place, I'm not a dime more. So basically you've covered the cost of producing this thing. Now you, you take that t-shirt and you give it to three different companies with three very different brands. We'll define what that is in a second. Then that price skyrockets from 10 dollars for three shirts to like 3300, or even a hundred dollars. Why is that? It can literally be the exact same shirt. I want to point out to like Maslow's hierarchies, hierarchy of needs, because at the bottom is just like food, shelter, that kind of stuff. Like, am I going to be alive? Next is about, can I have some abundance? Can, can I buy some things? And then do I have meaningful connections, relationships, and family? And then above that is somethin…

AI assessment note: “above that is something called status. And above that, I would consider identity”

Q have a You, you've said before, you don't have a marketing problem, you have a positioning problem, which is sort of exactly what you just talked about there. You're not, it's the same idea, it's just poorly packaged. So what do you mean when you say you don't have a marketing problem, you have a positioning problem? And do most people who sell something actually have that as their problem?

A I have no way to verify this, but I suspect it to be that. Everybody wants more customers. To get more customers, you need more leads. And they think, if I wave a magic wand, I'll just get more leads, and I'll be able to do this. Actually, there's lots and lots of problems. You probably don't have a great offer. You probably don't know who your ideal client profile is. And back to this whole thing. Alright. We seem to be more interested in things that were made specifically for a certain type of person. We understand this. Like, those jeans that you bought don't appeal to me. I'm not gonna wear them. And it might not appeal to a lot of other people for a lot of different reasons. It's too woke, it's too hippie, I don't care if it's American or not, it's too expensive, so they're not into that. But the clearer they get on the person that they're serving, And what they stand for, the more likely it is they're going to find customers. It's counterintuitive. So when we talk to creative people, they're like, well, I work with entrepreneurs. Duh. Who else would you be? I work with people. Okay. That's, that's really clear and specific. So they're afraid that if they were to become more specific with who they serve, then they're going to lose out on the market. It's, it's a weird mindset. So they look at the total addressable market, say it's this table, eight and a half billion peopl…

AI assessment note: “the clearer they get on the person that they're serving, And what they stand for”

Q You've talked a lot historically about visualizing, and of course visualizing brand and graphics and, you know, some of the beautiful things that you create is really important, but you've talked about it broadly, how even gold medalists pre-visualize what they're doing. And so can you talk a little bit about this idea of the ritual that you do if you want to win or build the life you love?

A Yes, yes. Uh, so I want to connect it to this one idea before I forget. Um, my friend who is a design luminary, his name is Brian Collins. He goes designers are futurists. We imagine all the possible ways that this can happen and we choose the most optimal path. I love that description. Brian is an intellect and he's a, he's a, he's intellectual and he's a designer and creative person. He just gives so much meaning and purpose to the kinds of things that my people do. So we sit there and we imagine like, What does the Cody Sanchez logo look like? What does the cover art look like? And we rehearse them in our mind. And sometimes we make them on paper or on the screen. And then through our intuition and our experience, we pick the one that's most optimal for you to achieve your result. That's pretty cool. So they can do that in that way. And then they somehow shut off their brain for everything else in their life, which is really bothersome to me. Design legend. I think Massimo Vignelli had said something like how you do one thing is how you do everything. So if you could design this, you could do everything else. So if you can see in one aspect of your life, you could do this, but in another aspect of your life, you can't. Resolve those conflicts. Figure it out. Put them together. Ok? Really, just like, if I could talk back to my partner, why can't I talk back to the client? If …

AI assessment note: “We imagine all the possible ways that this can happen and we choose the most optimal path.”

Q Great point. Somebody listening right now is like, yes, Chris, this is exactly right. This is where I want to go. I don't know exactly how to price. Like, what is your methodology for pricing? And how would you tell someone who's struggling with putting a real price tag on what they do to go do it?

A I try to play this game. It's the game of life, which is to find out what the theoretical threshold, the ceiling of what it is that I can charge for what it is that I do. And I, I want to always be slightly uncomfortable, and I want the client to be uncomfortable with accepting the price. I don't want them to say yes easily. I want them to be a little bit concerned, consternate about it a little bit, and just like, ooh, it's a lot, but you know what? You're worth it. The minute they make that decision, I know we're gonna have a good time together. So what we can do is, what, what industry are we in? Should I?

AI assessment note: “find out what the theoretical threshold, the ceiling of what it is that I can charge”