The Exchanges

Q on the brink, especially as we await You know, everything going on right now. Let's go to your background first. Your family immigrated from Moscow to the U.S. after the fall of the Soviet Union, and your father was a nuclear physicist, an expert in applied mathematics. Like, tell us a little bit about your upbringing. You, you really got into the world of cryptography and encryption early on, right?

A Yeah, that's right. So we immigrated in the mid nineties. Um, and I ended up in Chattanooga, Tennessee of all places, going to high school there. And my dad, uh, he was working for TVA, Tennessee value authority, but I was kind of bored, even though he was working on some really cool stuff, which was the deregulation of the energy sector in the U S and the free flow of electricity, being able to trade it based on spot pricing across the country. And he built some of those systems for TVA. Very early on, but still not as intellectually interesting as designing simulators for nuclear power plants. So he got really interested in the mathematics behind the emerging field of elliptic curve, curve cryptography, public key encryption. And, uh, I started helping him out as a high school kid. And, uh, that's what really got me into this industry. Uh, and you know, 30 years later, I'm still doing, doing it in some ways.

AI assessment note: “I started helping him out as a high school kid. And, uh, that's what really got me into this industry.”

Q you for being in DC fighting these battles. These are obviously really important, you know, just to, to end on optimism here on a couple of things, you know, you're immersed in the world of technology and policy. What are some of the most exciting breakthroughs that could give the U.S. advantages over China for decades to come, or what gives you the most hope right now for the future?

A Well, so I talk about the key to the winning this Cold War is really winning the technological race, first and foremost. Yes, you need to deter the invasion of Taiwan, make sure they never take it for just strategic reasons. But in the broader sense, it is really making sure that our economy wins over China's, right? And we're right now at 25% larger. There's a slowing down. If the trends continue, they'll never catch up with us. But if they manage to win the race in, in those four critical technologies, they might be able to. And those four critical technologies are AI and autonomy. I don't have to tell you about the importance of that. Second one, uh, that's closely related is biotech and synthetic biology, and not just in the area of medical sciences that people think about, but in the area of bioenergetics, by manufacturing, be able to produce new materials, uh, new energy sources in the lab. I think a lot of that innovation will be driven by AI and it's very, very exciting. Third one is space. You know, this area as well, uh, places like SpaceX and others that have Revolutionize spacelift, right, uh, democratize the cost of spacelift and, uh, the creation of these new modular satellites that you can put in low Earth orbit at a small price is helping us so much in resiliency, in, in intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, and communication, navigation, really game c…

AI assessment note: “And those four critical technologies are AI and autonomy.”

Q that. But it's, it's fascinating to hear from you and others that he really does seem to believe in this socialism, which, which we kind of know doesn't really work. Like the only reason China has wealth is because it has this like free market side of it. But to him, it's almost like socialism is a form of power and government control. Is that, is that what it's about?

A It is. I think it's about total population control, keeping himself and obviously the CCP in power, making sure that no one arises that can potentially challenge the system. And this is what they've learned right from the Soviet Union, right? And he has studied the collapse of the Soviet Union, uh, extensively. And he has learned that the great mistake of Gorbachev was to go for political liberalization Um, and, and, uh, allowing freedom of speech, allowing other parties to compete, and that, he believes, is what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and he said, no, no, we're never going to let that happen. We're going to make sure that we control everything as tightly as possible, and no one, not Jack Ma, not anyone else, is going to challenge or hold on power. That's why you have so much penetration of the Chinese Communist Party within these companies, right, where they have offices inside these large organizations, even though They, they're completely private sector organizations, not even the state owned enterprises, because they want to make sure that they're aware of any potential, even future challenges to their, to their role in government.

AI assessment note: “It is. I think it's about total population control, keeping himself and obviously the CCP”

Q that. But it's, it's fascinating to hear from you and others that he really does seem to believe in this socialism, which, which we kind of know doesn't really work. Like the only reason China has wealth is because it has this like free market side of it. But to him, it's almost like socialism is a form of power and government control. Is that, is that what it's about?

A It is. I think it's about total population control, keeping himself and obviously the CCP in power, making sure that no one arises that can potentially challenge the system. And this is what they've learned right from the Soviet Union, right? And he has studied the collapse of the Soviet Union, uh, extensively. And he has learned that the great mistake of Gorbachev was to go for political liberalization Um, and, and, uh, allowing freedom of speech, allowing other parties to compete, and that, he believes, is what led to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and he said, no, no, we're never going to let that happen. We're going to make sure that we control everything as tightly as possible, and no one, not Jack Ma, not anyone else, is going to challenge or hold on power. That's why you have so much penetration of the Chinese Communist Party within these companies, right, where they have offices inside these large organizations, even though They, they're completely private sector organizations, not even the state owned enterprises, because they want to make sure that they're aware of any potential, even future challenges to their, to their role in government.

AI assessment note: “It is. I think it's about total population control, keeping himself and obviously the CCP”

Q you for being in DC fighting these battles. These are obviously really important, you know, just to, to end on optimism here on a couple of things, you know, you're immersed in the world of technology and policy. What are some of the most exciting breakthroughs that could give the U.S. advantages over China for decades to come, or what gives you the most hope right now for the future?

A Well, so I talk about the key to the winning this Cold War is really winning the technological race, first and foremost. Yes, you need to deter the invasion of Taiwan, make sure they never take it for just strategic reasons. But in the broader sense, it is really making sure that our economy wins over China's, right? And we're right now at 25% larger. There's a slowing down. If the trends continue, they'll never catch up with us. But if they manage to win the race in, in those four critical technologies, they might be able to. And those four critical technologies are AI and autonomy. I don't have to tell you about the importance of that. Second one, uh, that's closely related is biotech and synthetic biology, and not just in the area of medical sciences that people think about, but in the area of bioenergetics, by manufacturing, be able to produce new materials, uh, new energy sources in the lab. I think a lot of that innovation will be driven by AI and it's very, very exciting. Third one is space. You know, this area as well, uh, places like SpaceX and others that have Revolutionize spacelift, right, uh, democratize the cost of spacelift and, uh, the creation of these new modular satellites that you can put in low Earth orbit at a small price is helping us so much in resiliency, in, in intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, and communication, navigation, really game c…

AI assessment note: “those four critical technologies are AI and autonomy... biotech and synthetic biology... space... green energy”

Q on the brink, especially as we await You know, everything going on right now. Let's go to your background first. Your family immigrated from Moscow to the U.S. after the fall of the Soviet Union, and your father was a nuclear physicist, an expert in applied mathematics. Like, tell us a little bit about your upbringing. You, you really got into the world of cryptography and encryption early on, right?

A Yeah, that's right. So we immigrated in the mid nineties. Um, and I ended up in Chattanooga, Tennessee of all places, going to high school there. And my dad, uh, he was working for TVA, Tennessee value authority, but I was kind of bored, even though he was working on some really cool stuff, which was the deregulation of the energy sector in the U S and the free flow of electricity, being able to trade it based on spot pricing across the country. And he built some of those systems for TVA. Very early on, but still not as intellectually interesting as designing simulators for nuclear power plants. So he got really interested in the mathematics behind the emerging field of elliptic curve, curve cryptography, public key encryption. And, uh, I started helping him out as a high school kid. And, uh, that's what really got me into this industry. Uh, and you know, 30 years later, I'm still doing, doing it in some ways.

AI assessment note: “I started helping him out as a high school kid. And, uh, that's what really got me”

Q there's all sorts of fun stories in there, but tell us a little bit about the threats posed by China, Russia, and other bad actors in cyber warfare. Like what should we be most worried about? Are they going to take down the electric grid? Everyone always talks about it. Are they going to destroy our banking system? Is there something else? Like what, what, what are the threats there?

A So this is really interesting because when I started CrowdStrike in 2011, I was mostly concerned about China. In fact, that's what led me to, to, to want to get out of McAfee and to, to start this organization. Because I had worked on a case at McAfee called Aurora that I named Aurora, which was a hack of Google by China. Uh, some of your listeners may remember that. And, uh, it was, they hacked into Google, they hacked into a number of other companies. Uh, and this was Chinese government, Chinese intelligence services. They were doing this the first time that the public sort of woke up to the threat of another nation state breaking into private sector companies, stealing intellectual property, stealing trade secrets for the benefit of their own domestic industry. And then for the next decade, I basically worked nonstop on massive numbers of espionage cases, mostly from China, but also a number of them from Russia, Iran, North Korea. But what's different now, and particularly from China, is in the last couple of years, you had the emergence of this new threat vector that is called Volt Typhoon, which is the Chinese military breaking into organizations, but instead of stealing trade secrets, instead of stealing source code, They're basically getting to companies that have nothing valuable to steal from an information perspective. It's small water utilities, small electric utilit…

AI assessment note: “It's small water utilities, small electric utilities.”

Q As a sci-fi fan, you know, I've built a few very large defense companies, so I really enjoyed the introduction of your book, because you actually laid out a hypothetical Chinese invasion of Taiwan in twenty-twenty-eight. Can you walk us a little bit through that scenario and tell us some of what would probably involve in the outcomes?

A Yeah. So I spent a lot of time on the ground in Taiwan, walking the terrain, getting appreciation for how hard it is to invade this place. And I think people that haven't been there may not get the appreciation. They think, oh, it's a small island, a hundred miles off Chinese shore. How hard can it be? And it's really a hellish place to invade because you've got the straight itself, the Taiwan Strait, a hundred miles that you have to cross. One of the most brutal waters in the world. I mean, half the year, it's basically impassable to anything, but Large container ships. You've got very shallow waters near any of the beaches, so you can't get any of your ships in close by, close in, uh, to unload troops and logistics. Uh, you've got, uh, mountains, you've got rivers, tunnels, bridges, right? So even if you manage to unload, you've got to fight through a really terrible terrain. Uh, this is not the open fields of Ukraine in any way. And one of the things that was really interesting in doing research for the book is actually looking at an invasion plan of the asylum from It was put together by the joint staff. It was called Operation Causeway. Of course, at the time, Formosa, as Taiwan was called at the time, was occupied by the Japanese. They had a substantial contingent of forces there, and right after D-Day, right after the success of Normandy, we were starting to look at basi…

AI assessment note: “it's really a hellish place to invade because you've got the straight itself”

Q there's all sorts of fun stories in there, but tell us a little bit about the threats posed by China, Russia, and other bad actors in cyber warfare. Like what should we be most worried about? Are they going to take down the electric grid? Everyone always talks about it. Are they going to destroy our banking system? Is there something else? Like what, what, what are the threats there?

A So this is really interesting because when I started CrowdStrike in 2011, I was mostly concerned about China. In fact, that's what led me to, to, to want to get out of McAfee and to, to start this organization. Because I had worked on a case at McAfee called Aurora that I named Aurora, which was a hack of Google by China. Uh, some of your listeners may remember that. And, uh, it was, they hacked into Google, they hacked into a number of other companies. Uh, and this was Chinese government, Chinese intelligence services. They were doing this the first time that the public sort of woke up to the threat of another nation state breaking into private sector companies, stealing intellectual property, stealing trade secrets for the benefit of their own domestic industry. And then for the next decade, I basically worked nonstop on massive numbers of espionage cases, mostly from China, but also a number of them from Russia, Iran, North Korea. But what's different now, and particularly from China, is in the last couple of years, you had the emergence of this new threat vector that is called Volt Typhoon, which is the Chinese military breaking into organizations, but instead of stealing trade secrets, instead of stealing source code, They're basically getting to companies that have nothing valuable to steal from an information perspective. It's small water utilities, small electric utilit…

AI assessment note: “Volt Typhoon, which is the Chinese military breaking into... small water utilities, small electric utilities”

Q I'm worried you might have to move sooner even because I think we'll be ready by then. But you also have a chapter about the U.S. titled, We Are Stronger Than We Think. So what are our best advantages over China right now? Like you said, we're waking up, but what do we have right now that's strong?

A I think we have five key advantages, not just over China, but over anywhere else, right? And, and I think I have unique, uh, expertise in this as an immigrant to this country who's lived in another place and who can tell Americans that the grass is not greener. Like, You know, obviously I was a young kid when I came over, uh, but my parents and even myself at an age of 13, you know, chose this country, right? Because it is the best place. And, and I call this the five eyes with an eye, not, uh, five eyes as the, uh, five intelligence agencies, uh, that our allies are called. Um, first one is immigration. And just like I was able to come to this country, some of the best and brightest people have been able to come to this country over the history of this place, including many of, of course, our founding fathers, Like Alexander Hamilton, for example, and make this country better, right? People like Fermi that have helped to create the atomic bomb, uh, and, and, uh, help us to create deterrence in the cold war and so many, many others. And I, I really love the quote. I talk about it in the book from Scott Galloway, who says that every single year there's a draft for human talent around the world. And every year the U S gets the top picks now, because we have a messed up immigration system where we don't have a merit-based program. We don't necessarily Take those topics and it's so…

AI assessment note: “I think we have five key advantages... First one is immigration.”

Q As a sci-fi fan, you know, I've built a few very large defense companies, so I really enjoyed the introduction of your book, because you actually laid out a hypothetical Chinese invasion of Taiwan in twenty-twenty-eight. Can you walk us a little bit through that scenario and tell us some of what would probably involve in the outcomes?

A Yeah. So I spent a lot of time on the ground in Taiwan, walking the terrain, getting appreciation for how hard it is to invade this place. And I think people that haven't been there may not get the appreciation. They think, oh, it's a small island, a hundred miles off Chinese shore. How hard can it be? And it's really a hellish place to invade because you've got the straight itself, the Taiwan Strait, a hundred miles that you have to cross. One of the most brutal waters in the world. I mean, half the year, it's basically impassable to anything, but Large container ships. You've got very shallow waters near any of the beaches, so you can't get any of your ships in close by, close in, uh, to unload troops and logistics. Uh, you've got, uh, mountains, you've got rivers, tunnels, bridges, right? So even if you manage to unload, you've got to fight through a really terrible terrain. Uh, this is not the open fields of Ukraine in any way. And one of the things that was really interesting in doing research for the book is actually looking at an invasion plan of the asylum from It was put together by the joint staff. It was called Operation Causeway. Of course, at the time, Formosa, as Taiwan was called at the time, was occupied by the Japanese. They had a substantial contingent of forces there, and right after D-Day, right after the success of Normandy, we were starting to look at basi…

AI assessment note: “getting appreciation for how hard it is to invade this place”

Q I'm worried you might have to move sooner even because I think we'll be ready by then. But you also have a chapter about the U.S. titled, We Are Stronger Than We Think. So what are our best advantages over China right now? Like you said, we're waking up, but what do we have right now that's strong?

A I think we have five key advantages, not just over China, but over anywhere else, right? And, and I think I have unique, uh, expertise in this as an immigrant to this country who's lived in another place and who can tell Americans that the grass is not greener. Like, You know, obviously I was a young kid when I came over, uh, but my parents and even myself at an age of 13, you know, chose this country, right? Because it is the best place. And, and I call this the five eyes with an eye, not, uh, five eyes as the, uh, five intelligence agencies, uh, that our allies are called. Um, first one is immigration. And just like I was able to come to this country, some of the best and brightest people have been able to come to this country over the history of this place, including many of, of course, our founding fathers, Like Alexander Hamilton, for example, and make this country better, right? People like Fermi that have helped to create the atomic bomb, uh, and, and, uh, help us to create deterrence in the cold war and so many, many others. And I, I really love the quote. I talk about it in the book from Scott Galloway, who says that every single year there's a draft for human talent around the world. And every year the U S gets the top picks now, because we have a messed up immigration system where we don't have a merit-based program. We don't necessarily Take those topics and it's so…

AI assessment note: “I think we have five key advantages... First one is immigration.”