The Exchanges

Q How did that work? Do you think you were able to have some success with that between Arabs and Israelis? Obviously, that's a pretty intractable problem.

A Well, you see, we solved the conflicts. Now, at the micro level, it really does work. You know, we had ventures that we supported for 25 years. The partnerships we forged between Israelis and Palestinians and Jordanians and Egyptians and Turks and Arab Israelis and Arab and Jewish Israelis stood steadfast throughout the vicissitudes of the conflict for over 25 years, and so it was even transgenerational, like Yoel Benesh and Abdullah Ghanem, he, Abdullah's, uh, passed away, his children maintained their relationship with Yoel, same with their relationship with Turkey, um, but at the macro level, I mean, the answer is it's a necessary but not sufficient condition for resolving conflict, like economic relations and trade are very important, but obviously many other things have to come together also.

AI assessment note: “at the micro level, it really does work... at the macro level”

Q And, and, and so in terms of how this shaped your life, I understand in 1994 you, you founded Peace Works. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

A Yeah, so PeaceWorks, um, is a company, I started right after law school, and I was a confused Mexican-American Jew trying to sell sundried tomato spreads made by Arabs and Israelis. And the concept was, and, and, um, it became, I started ventures all over, but I was not really focused, so I didn't really know what I was doing. I was selling, uh, food products without any background in, in food sales or any background in, in, in, That type of business. But it was a concept of using business as a force for bringing neighbors together. People from conflict regions having a vested interest in preserving those relationships because they're trading in commerce and profiting from those relationships. Correct. And even more important, when people discover each other's humanity, you shatter stereotypes, and then you discover that there's no absolute evil, that it's much easier To hate the other when you haven't actually met them. If you have a conversation, if you have a dinner, let alone if you're interacting, almost always, not always, but almost always, you, you discover each other's humanity.

AI assessment note: “PeaceWorks, um, is a company, I started right after law school”

Q What were a couple of the biggest mistakes? I'm curious to hear.

A The first one was that I, I, I thought that if I could break through a wall, I was going to succeed. And what I didn't figure out is right next to the wall, there was a door and I just needed to open the knob and go around it. So I had a lot of grit, but no wit. And the, and the, the, one of my fundamental lessons is focus and discipline and strategy. I mean, they're as important as that sheer Grit that entrepreneurs do need, but it's not enough. So I was all over the place. I was trying to start ventures, literally Joe, in, not just in the Middle East, but in Sri Lanka, between Sinalese and Tamils, in, um, South Africa, in Durban, in Indonesia, in a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist.

AI assessment note: “The first one was that I, I, I thought that if I could break through”

Q So season two of American Octonics, which we're in, is all about solutions, and so we gotta work on our daily habits, but what, what else it starts with us doing? How are we, how are we doing this?

A Yeah, so it starts with us is, Fundamentally a movement that relies on two type of building blocks for us to elevate, ah, American society, and eventually it's gonna go global. One is skill building. You know, the cool thing about America is that when you ask people about their values, it's shocking how much consensus there is across the left, center, and right on what's important to us. All Americans care about helping people that have been left behind. All Americans care about, or the vast majority about protecting, uh, our rule of law and about nobody being above the law. Americans care about a level playing field. Americans, it's just when it comes to our daily habits and how we manifest those values that because of the things we mentioned, it's kind of broken. But I think if we start providing skill building tools on a daily basis in a gamified way, like we're, You know, there's a lot of good content out there, um, that already exists, but it's very academic, and, and, and what we're doing is turning into fun games, where we give you tools so that you can practice, how do you deliberate with more curiosity? How do you relate with more empathy? How do you collaborate with more courage? In a way that's not just good for society, but good for you to become a good entrepreneur, to build better companies, more resilient companies, because this Stagnating inability for people to…

AI assessment note: “starts with us is, Fundamentally a movement that relies on two type of building blocks”

Q It's ego, right? You have your identity tied to these beliefs, and every time you hear something, you're, you're supporting your ego and saying, look how good I am. Look, Look how great I am. And, you know, it's, it's a tough thing.

A And there, I mean, there's many reasons for it we can discuss it, but the unforgiving judgmentalism that exists in America today is, is very, very concerning. It scares me. It reminds me of the stuff we were trying to deal with in the Arab-Israeli conflict. And Joe, this is interesting. This is very interesting. When we would bring together Palestinians and Israelis at one a.m. in the morning, trying to hash out agreements with them, uh, through our process with the One Voice movement, um, And we were staying till one a.m. negotiating certain wording on documents. It was tough, but we made more progress than when I'm talking to people that support Trump and people that oppose Trump. It is extraordinarily difficult to move people one inch to try to, but, but the answer for how to move people is to focus them on where we want to go and what we want as a people.

AI assessment note: “there's many reasons for it we can discuss it, but the unforgiving judgmentalism”

Q In terms of, yeah, in terms of, in terms of solving that conflict, there's many other things to teach us a little bit how to think about the, you, you thought about this a lot, like what are, what's some of the ontology of what's needed to fix these problems?

A Yeah, and then I also want to tell you about my failures at PeaceWorks because I find that, uh, remembering your failures is actually very useful and gives you better contrast That's how you get better. Than just saying all the things you got right. Your failures with peace work. But in terms of the, the conflict, um, I'm fundamental, you know, I also built a movement called One Voice, and again, it was this, an example of a confused Mexican-American Jew trying to have the temerity to say that we could build a grassroots movement for Israelis and Palestinians, and I did it, of course, in partnership with Israelis and Palestinians, but the first thing that it What it taught me, ah, actually, because your show is the American Optimist, I want to start with highlighting, was, you can't do anything. And, and particularly when people think that you're crazy, and that you make no sense, you might be onto something. And if you really believe something, you need to be careful, you need to research it, you need to be very, very thorough in your analysis. But if you have gone through that analysis, and it, and it makes sense, Don't give up because people think that it's too ambitious a goal. Like, you know, ultimately, like Margaret Mead wrote, uh, you know, it's only people that make change ultimately. It's like for those who, you know, never doubt the, that a handful of people can make…

AI assessment note: “we could build a grassroots movement for Israelis and Palestinians”