Oct 3, 2025 · 26m · american-optimist
How this Governor is Proving Trump Right · Joe Lonsdale
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Host Joe Lonsdale interviews Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt on 'American Optimist' to discuss bold state interventions in urban safety, homeless encampment cleanups, and criminal justice reform. The conversation outlines practical policy solutions to hold local governments, progressive district attorneys, and non-profit organizations accountable while restoring law and order.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 31.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 5.8 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.0 Joe pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:15 Stitt dismisses municipal housing promises
Stitt aggressively attacks progressive municipal leadership, arguing that promises to end homelessness through housing are merely checking a box while doing nothing.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 4:10 Lonsdale reframes mental illness versus voluntary lifestyleLonsdale slightly steers Stitt's framing by citing data showing many individuals suffer from mental illness alongside drug addiction while noting the element of personal choice.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 22:54 Stitt outlines historical shifts in mental health facilitiesStitt educates on the historical closure of long-term mental health institutions prior to 1980 and explains how de-institutionalization directly created modern street homelessness.
Joe holds their own ▶ 18:20 Lonsdale exposes coordinated progressive DA funding networkLonsdale showcases Cicero's investigative policy research, citing evidence that 48 district attorneys receive coordinated policy directives from the Wren Collective.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Urban Disorder and Trump's Law and Order Model | 6 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale opens with specific statistics on carjackings and draws comparisons to Austin's local policies. Stitt completely agrees with Lonsdale's framing regarding law and order and the failure of housing-first models. | |
| Operation Safe: Clearing 64 Encampments | 5 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale prompts details on Operation Safe and critiques NGO funding models. Stitt provides operational metrics from the Tulsa cleanup, highlighting that 45% of homeless individuals surveyed were from out of state. | |
| Political Courage and the Public Servant Mindset | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale poses a broad philosophical question about modern political risk-aversion. Stitt expounds on his philosophy of public service as temporary duty rather than a career pursuit, finding full alignment with the host. | |
| Innovative Policies: Property Tax Rebates and Drug-Free Mandates | 7 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale details Cicero Institute policy ideas, proposing a citizen reporting app with property tax rebate penalties for unaddressed encampments. Stitt enthusiastically endorses the business-oriented mechanism. | |
| Countering Progressive DAs and Restoring Criminal Penalties | 7 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale cites specific data regarding the Wren Collective coordinating policies across more than 48 progressive district attorneys. Stitt shares Oklahoma's statutory response requiring donor disclosure on sponsored litigation and restoring retail theft felony thresholds. | |
| Tackling Repeat Offenders and Rebuilding Mental Health Systems | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Lonsdale raises a two-strikes felony rule based on repeat offender crime statistics. Stitt breaks down homelessness into three distinct segments and discusses rebuilding long-term civil commitment systems pre-dating 1980 reforms. |
Statements from this episode (16)
Lonsdale claims D.C. carjackings dropped 83% after National Guard deployment
“President Trump showed that we don't have to live like this. He sent in the National Guard. Carjackings are down over 83%.”
Stitt claims building housing exacerbates homelessness by attracting more people
“You can never build enough houses for homeless because you're just going to keep attracting more and more and more people.”
Stitt deployed Oklahoma Highway Patrol to give Tulsa campers an ultimatum
“I sent my highway patrol in to clean up Tulsa. And we first went in and told them, you're not allowed to camp here. Ah, we gave them one day to get away, and then the next day we showed up, and we basically said, we're going to give you a couple options. We wi…”
Stitt says 99% of people in Tulsa encampments chose to leave
“99% of the people, they just leave because this is a lifestyle and they haven't hit rock bottom yet. And they're literally just getting on the train tracks and walking on to the next community.”
Stitt: Oklahoma removed 1.9 million pounds of debris from Tulsa encampments
“We removed about 1.9 million pounds of trash and debris, needles, drug paraphernalia.”
Stitt: State operation cleared 64 homeless encampments in Tulsa
“There were 64 different camps, and you'd be shocked, like literally right off the highway in some wooded areas, some encampments behind people's houses.”
Stitt claims 45% of Tulsa's homeless population originated out of state
“The other thing, Joe, that I think is interesting, from our surveys, around 45% of the homeless in Tulsa were from out of state.”
Stitt claims homeless nonprofits raise more money when crises worsen
“Nonprofits, the way they make money, Is not by solving these problems. They can make, they can raise more money if they keep, if it gets worse and they keep talking about it. And so when you create all these services, you're going to be attracting more and mor…”
Lonsdale alleges many California homelessness nonprofits operate as insider grifts
“Cause you know, in our view, coming from California, I know a lot of these things were grifts where they'd hire all of their friends, all of their family, you know, even their aunt Sally, everyone's working for the nonprofit for two, three, 400 K. And it's obv…”
Lonsdale claims Biden's HUD forced facilities to allow drug use
“For a while, HUD, the national government was actually coming in under the Biden administration, and it was forcing people to allow people to use drugs in their treatment areas”
Stitt claims there is no evidence needle exchanges curb drug use
“We don't see any evidence that that's gonna curb drug use by, you know, giving them more, more needles.”
Lonsdale claims over 48 district attorneys funded the Wren Collective
“More than 48 DAs were caught specifically funding the Wren collective around this.”
Stitt: Oklahoma Passed Law Requiring Litigation Funder Disclosures
“And so we, you have to now disclose who are your funders. And we're just trying to expose that. So we actually passed a law last year against some of those major, major you know, lawsuits that are coming, and who are the funders behind them?”
Stitt claims restoring felony theft penalties decreased crime in Oklahoma
“So we've gone back, and we've raised the threshold, we've turned it back into a felony, and guess what? Crime's going down in Oklahoma.”
Stitt says Oklahoma plans to institute long-term civil psychiatric commitments
“That's one thing Oklahoma's looking at is, if you have some serious mental issues, we are going to get you into, we're going to prosecute you, that's part of Trump's executive order, we're going to commit you long term.”