Apr 5, 2023 · 36m · american-optimist
Ep 52: Yitz Applbaum and a Modern Middle East Renaissance · Joe Lonsdale
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Venture capitalist and ordained rabbi Yitz Applbaum joins Joe Lonsdale on American Optimist to discuss his multi-faceted career, the explosive growth of Israel's technology ecosystem, historic economic and diplomatic transformations across Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region, and his passion for fine spirits, heritage, and global innovation.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 33.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 4.7 Guest disagreement 0.2 Joe pushing back 0.3
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 22:10 Flight Overflight Correction
Yitz immediately interrupts and corrects Joe's hedge that Saudi Arabia 'sometimes' allows flights, asserting that overflights are now standard practice.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 7:46 Critique of Israeli Middle ManagementJoe pushes back playfully on Israeli flat corporate culture, arguing that universal chutzpah makes middle management nearly impossible.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:18 Israeli Military IP Transfer MechanicsYitz educates Joe on how the Israeli military deliberately encourages Unit 8200 graduates to take cyber and tech IP into the commercial sphere to spawn multi-billion dollar firms.
Joe holds their own ▶ 18:09 Comparative Statecraft AnalysisJoe demonstrates deep institutional insight by comparing the UAE's governance strategy to Singapore and explaining the brain drain of elite British civil servants to the Gulf.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Joe Lonsdale Introduces Guest Yitz Applbaum | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Joe introduces Yitz with detailed background knowledge of his career in venture capital, philanthropy, and religious heritage. Yitz explains his early career pivot from rabbinical study to tech and describes the go-to-market strategy of Misma Ventures. | |
| The Roots of Israel's 'Start-up Nation' Success | 5 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Joe cites Dan Senor's 'Startup Nation' thesis and the adversity faced by Jewish refugees to explore Israel's economic rise. Yitz reframes this with his 'one percent Moses, 99 percent business' concept, explaining how diaspora networks opened doors. | |
| Military Innovation, Social Trust, and 'Achpatut' | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Yitz details how Unit 8200 veterans are encouraged to commercialize military IP into major public companies like Check Point and Mobileye. Joe contributes by linking Israeli cultural trust to Judeo-Christian values and network theory. | |
| The Abraham Accords and Pragmatic Regional Diplomacy | 6 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Joe questions why traditional diplomatic establishments failed to broker Middle East peace where business and defense pragmatism succeeded. Yitz explains the Abraham Accords as a bottom-up commercial and person-to-person alignment built over decades of quiet cooperation. | |
| Economic Renaissance in the Gulf Cooperation Council | 6 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Joe compares the UAE's governance to Singapore's state model and notes how top Western talent is moving to the Gulf. Yitz elaborates on the tax incentives, visa policies, and Dubai's multi-trillion dollar expansion plans. | |
| Saudi Arabia's Transformation Under Crown Prince MBS | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Joe provides a nuanced breakdown of Crown Prince MBS's modernization drive alongside geopolitical complexities. Yitz offers firsthand accounts of rapid social and entrepreneurial change, noting he maintains kosher cookware in Riyadh restaurants. | |
| Uncovering Living History Beneath the Western Wall | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Joe and Yitz discuss the archaeological excavations beneath the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Yitz describes finding 2,800-year-old artifacts spanning the First Temple period and recounts Prime Minister Netanyahu presenting a biblical seal to President Obama. | |
| Tasting Cask-Strength Scotch and Kosher Wine Culture | 5 | 6 | 0 | 0 | The two taste a rare 28-year-old single-cask Islay scotch they selected together in Scotland. Yitz educates listeners on single-barrel characteristics, proofing, and the explosion of quality in kosher winemaking and boutique Israeli vineyards. | |
| Collecting Fine Spirits, Rare Cigars, and Arnold Schwarzenegger | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Yitz explains why 'ghost distilleries' like Brora and Port Ellen command five-figure valuations and shares an anecdote about cigar preferences with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Joe connects rare whiskies to Palantir co-founder Alex Karp. |
Statements from this episode (10)
Applbaum: MizMaa Ventures is on Fund II with $250M raised
“We're on our second fund. We've raised about two hundred fifty million dollars, and we focus on the things that are strongest in Israel.”
MizMaa Ventures refuses Israeli startups lacking design partners or early customers
“Today, we don't invest in an Israeli company that doesn't have a design partner, that doesn't have a beta or an alpha customer, because how do you know what you're supposed to build?”
Applbaum: Israel is one of the world's largest net water exporters
“Today, Israel is one of the net largest exporters of water in the world.”
Israel's Unit 8200 encourages departing soldiers to commercialize non-classified military tech
“If you're at 8200, of course, which is the most famous of the Israeli military units in tech and in cyber, although there are many when you leave the military, believe it or not, you're actually encouraged to take that technology with you. Now, I don't mean if…”
Israel quietly shared intelligence and medical care with Arab states for 25 years
“Also hosting families and hospitals in Israel. You cannot imagine how many stories I hear of people who come to Sheba Hospital from the Arab states, not in the last 24 months, in the last 25 years. That made a very big difference. And also, sharing of intellig…”
Abraham Accords succeeded by prioritizing defense and economics over the Palestinian conflict
“Economic prosperity is what drives so many people today, especially in the region, especially where we've come from and they've come from. And this was approached really from the perspective of defense. There was a lot of stuff that went on behind the scenes a…”
UAE grants Israeli founder visas in months while the US takes years
“If you're an Israeli and you want to go move to the U.S. With your family, it could take you a year, two years to get all the visa. If you want to come work or start a company from Tel Aviv in Abu Dhabi, Dubai, you can bring your whole family and all your frie…”
Dubai plans $7.8T investment to become a top-three global economic hub
“There was an article in the paper just yesterday that the Dubai government is going to spend 7.8 trillion dollars over the next 10 or 15 years to become the number three leading economic center in the world.”