Nov 23, 2023 · 36m · american-optimist
Ep 71: No Debt, Top Professors & Personal Coaches — A New Community College with Tade Oyerinde · Joe Lonsdale
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In this episode of American Optimist, host Joe Lonsdale interviews Tade Oyerinde, Chancellor of Campus, about transforming community college education in the United States. Oyerinde explains how his innovative model eliminates student debt through federal Pell Grants, offers elite instruction, and provides proactive coaching to dramatically boost graduation rates.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 16.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 5.3 Guest disagreement 1.3 Joe pushing back 1.0
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 28:43 Pushing back on the harmlessness of for-profit education
Oyerinde explicitly rejects Lonsdale's premise that there is nothing inherently wrong with for-profit models, arguing that systemic adverse incentives require constant conscious restraint.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 15:54 Challenging community college quality and activist curriculaLonsdale pushes back against romanticizing community colleges, arguing that many focus on low-value social justice subjects rather than rigorous instruction.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:24 Exposing the exploitation of elite university adjunctsOyerinde educates Lonsdale on the reality that most elite adjunct professors are heavily indebted PhDs earning below $50k rather than affluent guest lecturers.
Joe holds their own ▶ 24:00 Diagnosing public education systems as political special interestsLonsdale demonstrates deep institutional domain knowledge, comparing California and Texas to explain how large educational employers shift from serving students to protecting their own employment base.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tade Oyerinde's Upbringing and Journey into Engineering | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Oyerinde shares his background and contrasts US higher education efficiency with the UK system to explain administrative bloat. Lonsdale engages collaboratively on federal loan market distortions. | |
| Why Community Colleges Fail Students and the Lack of Support Infrastructure | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Oyerinde explains why over two-thirds of community college students drop out, drawing parallels to customer churn and lack of support infrastructure. Lonsdale follows along and asks clarifying questions. | |
| The Campus Model: Proven Principles for High Graduation Rates | 4 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Oyerinde details the four pillars adapted from the CUNY ASAP model and gently clarifies that full-time enrollment does not mean students do not work jobs. Lonsdale probes the ROI of associate degrees and reflects on stereotypes. | |
| Recruiting World-Class Adjunct Professors from Top Universities | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Oyerinde reveals the hidden economic precarity of top-university adjunct professors and how Campus leverages this supply pool by doubling pay rates. Lonsdale actively validates the economic logic. | |
| Institutional Consolidation and Overcoming Local Special Interests | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Oyerinde discusses the Dallas College consolidation to solve credit transfer barriers. Lonsdale adds his own analysis on how large educational institutions become entrenched political special interests. | |
| Why Campus Chose a For-Profit Structure to Scale Responsibly | 5 | 6 | 3 | 2 | Oyerinde explains choosing a for-profit structure for capital access and pushes back when Lonsdale suggests there is nothing inherently risky about for-profit education, highlighting adverse incentives like artificial grade passing. | |
| Target Students, Degrees Offered, and Future High-Demand Skills | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Oyerinde describes their typical student profile and plans to expand from business degrees into high-demand physical and technical trades. Lonsdale agrees enthusiastically on the necessity of reshoring skills. | |
| Sources of Optimism and Embracing Regulatory Challenges | 3 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Oyerinde shares why he is optimistic, highlighting the existing $40B federal grant pool and the contrarian advantage of collaborating directly with regulators. Lonsdale praises Oyerinde's approach. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Oyerinde: US higher ed is half as institutionally efficient as the UK
“With 200 universities to educate two million people a year. In the United States, we have 10 times as many students, about twenty million students, but 20 times as many institutions. We have 4000 colleges and universities and states. So we're half as efficient…”
Oyerinde: US student loan debt has reached $1.8 trillion
“And so, you know, institutions keep raising tuition, and the government just keeps financing more student loans. And that's why we're at one point, about 1.8 trillion in student loan debt at this point.”
Lonsdale: I am starting a university to compete with top four-year colleges
“Obviously, I'm starting a university to compete with some of the top four-year colleges.”
Oyerinde: Quality and completion are community college's real problems, not cost
“So yeah, cost isn't really the problem with community college. The major, like, problem with community college, I sort of describe in two ways. It's like quality and completion, which is kind of a child or derivative of quality.”
Oyerinde: Only about 30% of community college students ever graduate
“Only about 30% of students who go to a community college will ever graduate. With an associate's degree or transfer into a four year school and get a bachelor's degree.”
Tade Oyerinde: CUNY ASAP achieved 51% completion rate through four support principles
“They've been able to achieve a 51% completion rate In their CUNY ASAP program, the Accelerated Study of Associate's Degree programs where they basically found if you did four things, you can get students to graduate about 50%.”
Oyerinde: Associate degrees increase lifetime earnings by roughly $500,000 over high school
“So like generally speaking if you get a bachelor's degree, you're going to out earn people with just a high school diploma by about a million dollars over the course of your life. Associate's degree gets you about half the value. So about half a million dollar…”
Tade Oyerinde: Campus gives every student a laptop and subsidizes Wi-Fi
“Instead of a MetroCard, because most of our students are fully online, we give every student a laptop, and we pay about a third of their Wi-Fi bills if their Wi-Fi is too, too slow or unreliable.”
Oyerinde: Community college beats taking on debt for a tier-three school
“For, I'd say, at least half of students in America today, community college is the clever path, it's a smart path, it's way better, even, even with the lower graduation rates than getting, Getting into debt to go to a tier three.”
Oyerinde: Adjunct professors tend to be better teachers than tenured faculty
“Because adjuncts, in my experience, tend to be, like, more likely to be great teachers.”
Oyerinde: Campus pays adjuncts $8,000 per class, doubling national average
“So the average adjunct makes about 4000 dollars per class that they teach. In community colleges, it's closer to two and a half K. And we pay 8000 dollars to our adjuncts today.”
Oyerinde: Campus has recruited 300 professors from top universities and HBCUs
“Just about 300. On the network from, all from top 50 universities or top five HBCUs.”
Lonsdale: Large education and healthcare institutions prioritize self-preservation as employers
“Once you become a large employer in a state, like you actually end up existing sometimes for your own sake as a large employer. That's very powerful. This is why you have the really powerful healthcare interests and education interests. Like it's, you know, I …”
Oyerinde: University of Phoenix had a 5% graduation rate under Obama
“University of Phoenix. Those guys, when Obama came in, they had five percent graduation rate.”
Oyerinde: University of Phoenix dropouts averaged $10,000 in student debt
“Their average dropout Had 10,000 dollars in student loan debt.”