Jan 11, 2023 · 32m · american-optimist
Andrew Yang Will Change How You Think About Politics · Joe Lonsdale
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Former presidential candidate Andrew Yang joins host Joe Lonsdale to discuss lessons learned from early business failures, the mechanics of structural electoral reform through the Forward Party, and innovative policy solutions to combat government inefficiency and urban dysfunction.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 27.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 1.8 Joe pushing back 1.5
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 29:05 Crazy uncle versus overbearing schoolmarm critique
Andrew satirizes both establishment political parties, framing Republicans as having crazy uncle energy and Democrats as overbearing schoolmarms alienating common-sense voters.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 7:14 Host challenges campaign career assessmentJoe rejects Andrew's premise that joining his longshot presidential campaign was objectively a bad decision, insisting it had immense value due to its social impact.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:36 The 22% approval versus 94% reelection paradoxAndrew quizzes Joe on congressional approval versus reelection rates to demonstrate how safe gerrymandered districts create perverse incentives that insulate politicians from general public opinion.
Joe holds their own ▶ 18:49 Outcome-based vocational education reformJoe demonstrates deep policy expertise by detailing state laws his institute passed that tied vocational school funding to graduate salaries, resulting in a 100%+ salary jump.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Early Career, Quitting Law, and Starting Out | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe opens with biographical inquiries about Andrew quitting Columbia Law after five months and navigating early startup failures. Andrew shares humorous anecdotes about parental expectations and dealing with debt in a relaxed, storytelling tone. | |
| Transitioning to Politics & Family Reactions | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | The conversation covers Andrew's decision to run for president and his family's initial disbelief. Joe relates with his own family's involvement in policy while maintaining a lighthearted, supportive rapport. | |
| Organizational Cultures: Startups vs. Campaigns | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Andrew contrasts private sector business incentives with mission-driven nonprofits and political campaigns, noting joining his campaign was objectively a poor career move. Joe offers mild pushback, emphasizing that impact makes such choices worthwhile even in defeat. | |
| The Forward Party & Electoral Reform Mechanics | 5 | 7 | 2 | 1 | Andrew educates Joe on structural electoral dysfunction, citing Katherine Gale's framework and contrasting a 22% approval rating with a 94% reelection rate. He details how ranked-choice voting and open primaries enabled Lisa Murkowski's victory in Alaska. | |
| Urban Dysfunction, NYC Mayoral Run, and One-Party Rule | 6 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Both analyze municipal government dysfunction, with Joe outlining how local NGO political machines capture city budgets. Andrew explains how closed primary rules in New York disenfranchise independents and lock in one-party rule. | |
| Government Accountability, Outcome Metrics, and Education | 7 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Joe details his Cicero Institute work tying vocational school funding directly to graduate salaries. Andrew builds on this by referencing Richard Reeves' research on male educational decline and structural resistance to program evaluation. | |
| UBI, Effective Spending, and Bureaucratic Waste | 7 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Andrew advocates for direct cash support like the child tax credit and critiques bloated school administrative overhead. Joe contributes academic backing by citing Roland Fryer's Harvard research showing direct financial incentives significantly improved student performance. | |
| Venture for America, San Francisco's Decline, and Political Home | 6 | 5 | 2 | 1 | Andrew recounts creating Venture for America to combat talent concentration, followed by mutual critiques of San Francisco's governance. Andrew colorfully characterizes the major parties as crazy uncle and overbearing schoolmarm energies. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Yang: Original goal was elevating another political figure, not running himself
“One of my goals was help elevate a national political figure. Because my thinking was, if I can find someone who'd do the right things in office, then they can do them, and I don't have to. And it was not on my list to actually ever run for office myself.”
Yang: Trump's 2016 Victory Resulted From Manufacturing Job Automation
“So I marched around the country for six years trying to help entrepreneurs and startups and growth companies in Detroit, Cleveland, Birmingham, New Orleans and so I saw the aftermath of the automation of manufacturing jobs and then Trump wins in 2016, so I thi…”
Yang: 90% of US congressional districts are uncompetitive
“90% of the congressional districts around the country are drawn to be either blue or red and are uncompetitive in general.”
Yang: 8 of 10 pro-impeachment House Republicans lost primaries
“Eight out of 10 of the House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump didn't make it
[828] Andrew Yang: Yeah, back even through the primary.”
Yang: Only 900,000 people voted in the deciding NYC mayoral primary
“900,000 people voted in the Democratic primary that essentially decided who won. The population of New York City is around nine million.”
Yang: Congressional incumbents have a 94% reelection rate
“Again, you have a 94% reelect, right? You can be a piece of furniture as long as you play the game.”
Lonsdale: Outcome-based vocational funding doubled graduate salaries in several states
“I don't know if you saw it, a few states, we changed the incentives where the vocational schools, they only got money based on the salaries of the students coming out, and so the salaries went up over a hundred percent, because all of a sudden they have to, yo…”
Yang: Men make up only 40% of US college students
“You know that men are only 40% of college students now?”
Yang: 2021 Child Tax Credit lifted about three million children from poverty
“A 174 economists signed a letter saying we should keep the enhanced child tax credit that got passed as part of COVID relief in twenty-twenty-one. It brought something like three million kids out of poverty.”
Lonsdale: Half of US defense budget is effectively contractor welfare
“I build a lot of defense companies, but I look at like half the defense budget and it's like welfare for like, for defense stuff. It's not even stuff that we need against our adversaries”
Yang: Out-of-school factors determine majority of student academic performance
“Turns out that a majority of the kids' performance is determined by out of school factors anyway. By things like stress levels in the house and nutrition and the rest of it.”
Lonsdale: Roland Fryer found paying students for grades outperformed smaller classes
“He tested all these different things, like what, where they use the money best, and there's one thing is, like, people say smaller class sizes matter, and he tested all of it, and the thing he found in these poor inner cities that actually had the biggest impa…”
Yang: NYC spent around $5,000 monthly per homeless person
“We were spending maybe 5000 a month per homeless person here in New York City. And then you look at it and be like, wait a minute, that's more than rent for a studio apartment.”
Yang: 80% of top graduates went to six industries in six cities
“And it was literally 80% of the intellectual products from these institutions were gonna go to one of these six places and do one of these six things.”
Yang: Witnessed a Walgreens robbery during a one-day visit to San Francisco
“A Walgreens got robbed right in front of me. It was one of those things where you can't even just draw it up. Like I was, and I was in town for like a day. I walk into Walgreens, dude just, you know, runs out with a bag full of stuff”
Lonsdale: US cities are hiring officials who ran San Francisco policies
“A lot of other cities are hiring the same people who ran these things in San Francisco, and that really concerns me.”
Yang: Republicans have 'crazy uncle' and Democrats 'schoolmarm' energy
“Historically Republicans have been to the daddy party, Democrats have been to the mommy party but the Republicans have kind of taken on this, like, crazy uncle energy... And the Democrats have become kind of the overbearing schoolmarm energy.”
Yang: Nevada passed ranked-choice voting despite opposition from both parties
“In things like getting rid of party primaries and switching to nonpartisan primaries and ranked choice voting, which passed in Nevada, despite the fact that both political parties came out against it.”