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Feb 23, 2022 · 34m · american-optimist

How Hayes Barnard Is Transforming Solar Tech & Green Housing · Joe Lonsdale

Hayes Barnard · 27m spoken Joe Lonsdale · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this episode of 'Joe Lonsdale: American Optimist', host Joe Lonsdale interviews Hayes Barnard, Founder and CEO of Goodleap and GivePower, about his journey from overcoming learning differences to scaling SolarCity, building a $12 billion fintech platform for home electrification, and deploying solar water desalination in developing nations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 14.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Joe as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 3.9 Guest disagreement 0.9 Joe pushing back 1.7
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:28–3:05 · Joe as informed peer 3/10 Early Life, Dyslexia, and the Journey to Silicon Valley Joe introduces Hayes and explores his upbringing in Missouri, asking about how childhood struggles shaped his entrepreneurial drive. Hayes explains dealing with dysgraphia and moving to Silicon Valley with something to prove.3:05–6:33 · Joe as informed peer 3/10 Oracle Lessons, Virtual Solar Sales, and Scaling SolarCity Joe characterizes Oracle's culture as aggressively 'meat eating', prompting Hayes to reframe it as innovative remote software distribution. Hayes details how he pioneered virtual mortgage and solar sales before selling to SolarCity.6:33–9:35 · Joe as informed peer 3/10 Leadership Lessons from Elon Musk and Scaling SolarCity Joe asks about leadership friction and trade-offs working alongside Elon Musk. Hayes dismisses direct conflict, explaining they complemented each other between product savant design and rapid human capital scaling.9:35–16:47 · Joe as informed peer 4/10 Building Goodleap and Transforming Green Housing Finance Hayes breaks down Goodleap's B2B point-of-sale financing model for domestic clean tech installations. Joe seeks clarification on how the marketplace connects contractors, institutional banks, and homeowners.16:47–20:25 · Joe as informed peer 3/10 GivePower, Solar Water Farms, and Global Humanitarian Impact Hayes details his non-profit GivePower and the engineering behind solar-powered desalination containers producing 75,000 liters daily. Joe asks practical questions about capital expenditure and maintenance logistics.20:25–24:42 · Joe as informed peer 4/10 Sustainable Giving Models, Health Benefits, and Women's Empowerment Hayes explains how partner companies donate $20 per Goodleap transaction to fund water projects and details using M-Pesa to maintain sustainability. Joe adds context regarding how childhood waterborne parasites suppress developmental health and adult IQ.24:42–34:31 · Joe as informed peer 5/10 Energy Transition, Climate Optimism, and Opportunities for Gen Z Joe introduces counter-arguments regarding solar mining resource limits and the viability of nuclear power. Hayes counters climate pessimism by highlighting massive institutional capital flow and multi-trillion-dollar market expansion for Gen Z builders.0:28–3:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Early Life, Dyslexia, and the Journey to Silicon Valley Joe introduces Hayes and explores his upbringing in Missouri, asking about how childhood struggles shaped his entrepreneurial drive. Hayes explains dealing with dysgraphia and moving to Silicon Valley with something to prove.3:05–6:33 · Guest teaching 3/10 Oracle Lessons, Virtual Solar Sales, and Scaling SolarCity Joe characterizes Oracle's culture as aggressively 'meat eating', prompting Hayes to reframe it as innovative remote software distribution. Hayes details how he pioneered virtual mortgage and solar sales before selling to SolarCity.6:33–9:35 · Guest teaching 4/10 Leadership Lessons from Elon Musk and Scaling SolarCity Joe asks about leadership friction and trade-offs working alongside Elon Musk. Hayes dismisses direct conflict, explaining they complemented each other between product savant design and rapid human capital scaling.9:35–16:47 · Guest teaching 5/10 Building Goodleap and Transforming Green Housing Finance Hayes breaks down Goodleap's B2B point-of-sale financing model for domestic clean tech installations. Joe seeks clarification on how the marketplace connects contractors, institutional banks, and homeowners.16:47–20:25 · Guest teaching 5/10 GivePower, Solar Water Farms, and Global Humanitarian Impact Hayes details his non-profit GivePower and the engineering behind solar-powered desalination containers producing 75,000 liters daily. Joe asks practical questions about capital expenditure and maintenance logistics.20:25–24:42 · Guest teaching 4/10 Sustainable Giving Models, Health Benefits, and Women's Empowerment Hayes explains how partner companies donate $20 per Goodleap transaction to fund water projects and details using M-Pesa to maintain sustainability. Joe adds context regarding how childhood waterborne parasites suppress developmental health and adult IQ.24:42–34:31 · Guest teaching 4/10 Energy Transition, Climate Optimism, and Opportunities for Gen Z Joe introduces counter-arguments regarding solar mining resource limits and the viability of nuclear power. Hayes counters climate pessimism by highlighting massive institutional capital flow and multi-trillion-dollar market expansion for Gen Z builders.0:28–3:05 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Early Life, Dyslexia, and the Journey to Silicon Valley Joe introduces Hayes and explores his upbringing in Missouri, asking about how childhood struggles shaped his entrepreneurial drive. Hayes explains dealing with dysgraphia and moving to Silicon Valley with something to prove.3:05–6:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Oracle Lessons, Virtual Solar Sales, and Scaling SolarCity Joe characterizes Oracle's culture as aggressively 'meat eating', prompting Hayes to reframe it as innovative remote software distribution. Hayes details how he pioneered virtual mortgage and solar sales before selling to SolarCity.6:33–9:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Leadership Lessons from Elon Musk and Scaling SolarCity Joe asks about leadership friction and trade-offs working alongside Elon Musk. Hayes dismisses direct conflict, explaining they complemented each other between product savant design and rapid human capital scaling.9:35–16:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Building Goodleap and Transforming Green Housing Finance Hayes breaks down Goodleap's B2B point-of-sale financing model for domestic clean tech installations. Joe seeks clarification on how the marketplace connects contractors, institutional banks, and homeowners.16:47–20:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 GivePower, Solar Water Farms, and Global Humanitarian Impact Hayes details his non-profit GivePower and the engineering behind solar-powered desalination containers producing 75,000 liters daily. Joe asks practical questions about capital expenditure and maintenance logistics.20:25–24:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sustainable Giving Models, Health Benefits, and Women's Empowerment Hayes explains how partner companies donate $20 per Goodleap transaction to fund water projects and details using M-Pesa to maintain sustainability. Joe adds context regarding how childhood waterborne parasites suppress developmental health and adult IQ.24:42–34:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Energy Transition, Climate Optimism, and Opportunities for Gen Z Joe introduces counter-arguments regarding solar mining resource limits and the viability of nuclear power. Hayes counters climate pessimism by highlighting massive institutional capital flow and multi-trillion-dollar market expansion for Gen Z builders.0:28–3:05 · Joe pushing back 1/10 Early Life, Dyslexia, and the Journey to Silicon Valley Joe introduces Hayes and explores his upbringing in Missouri, asking about how childhood struggles shaped his entrepreneurial drive. Hayes explains dealing with dysgraphia and moving to Silicon Valley with something to prove.3:05–6:33 · Joe pushing back 2/10 Oracle Lessons, Virtual Solar Sales, and Scaling SolarCity Joe characterizes Oracle's culture as aggressively 'meat eating', prompting Hayes to reframe it as innovative remote software distribution. Hayes details how he pioneered virtual mortgage and solar sales before selling to SolarCity.6:33–9:35 · Joe pushing back 2/10 Leadership Lessons from Elon Musk and Scaling SolarCity Joe asks about leadership friction and trade-offs working alongside Elon Musk. Hayes dismisses direct conflict, explaining they complemented each other between product savant design and rapid human capital scaling.9:35–16:47 · Joe pushing back 2/10 Building Goodleap and Transforming Green Housing Finance Hayes breaks down Goodleap's B2B point-of-sale financing model for domestic clean tech installations. Joe seeks clarification on how the marketplace connects contractors, institutional banks, and homeowners.16:47–20:25 · Joe pushing back 1/10 GivePower, Solar Water Farms, and Global Humanitarian Impact Hayes details his non-profit GivePower and the engineering behind solar-powered desalination containers producing 75,000 liters daily. Joe asks practical questions about capital expenditure and maintenance logistics.20:25–24:42 · Joe pushing back 1/10 Sustainable Giving Models, Health Benefits, and Women's Empowerment Hayes explains how partner companies donate $20 per Goodleap transaction to fund water projects and details using M-Pesa to maintain sustainability. Joe adds context regarding how childhood waterborne parasites suppress developmental health and adult IQ.24:42–34:31 · Joe pushing back 3/10 Energy Transition, Climate Optimism, and Opportunities for Gen Z Joe introduces counter-arguments regarding solar mining resource limits and the viability of nuclear power. Hayes counters climate pessimism by highlighting massive institutional capital flow and multi-trillion-dollar market expansion for Gen Z builders.

speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Joe 11.3% · guest 88.7%0:00 · Joe 11.3% · guest 88.7%3:00 · Joe 16% · guest 84%3:00 · Joe 16% · guest 84%6:00 · Joe 22.7% · guest 77.3%6:00 · Joe 22.7% · guest 77.3%9:00 · Joe 7.8% · guest 92.2%9:00 · Joe 7.8% · guest 92.2%12:00 · Joe 23.2% · guest 76.8%12:00 · Joe 23.2% · guest 76.8%15:00 · Joe 11.3% · guest 88.7%15:00 · Joe 11.3% · guest 88.7%18:00 · Joe 15.2% · guest 84.8%18:00 · Joe 15.2% · guest 84.8%21:00 · Joe 15.9% · guest 84.1%21:00 · Joe 15.9% · guest 84.1%24:00 · Joe 20.7% · guest 79.3%24:00 · Joe 20.7% · guest 79.3%27:00 · Joe 11.6% · guest 88.4%27:00 · Joe 11.6% · guest 88.4%30:00 · Joe 9.1% · guest 90.9%30:00 · Joe 9.1% · guest 90.9%33:00 · Joe 7.3% · guest 92.7%33:00 · Joe 7.3% · guest 92.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 3:26 Reframing Oracle's aggressive reputation

Hayes politely rejects Joe's assertion that Oracle was purely an aggressive 'meat eating' sales environment, clarifying it was primarily an innovative software sales model.

 Hardest push from Joe ▶ 24:42 Challenging solar resource limits and advocating nuclear

Joe challenges the uncritical push for solar by citing dirty mining of lithium/silicon, resource bottlenecks at 100x scale, and arguments in favor of nuclear energy.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:05 Educating on home carbon share and battery attachment growth

Hayes educates Joe with market data, revealing that 40% of US carbon emissions stem from homes, battery attach rates surged from 2% to 25%, and roofing represents a $50B market.

 Joe holds their own ▶ 23:25 Linking contaminated water to cognitive developmental deficits

Joe displays his own domain knowledge by connecting Hayes's points about water parasites directly to developmental stunting and lowered adult IQ in developing communities.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicJoe as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementJoe pushing backWhy
Early Life, Dyslexia, and the Journey to Silicon Valley 3211 Joe introduces Hayes and explores his upbringing in Missouri, asking about how childhood struggles shaped his entrepreneurial drive. Hayes explains dealing with dysgraphia and moving to Silicon Valley with something to prove.
Oracle Lessons, Virtual Solar Sales, and Scaling SolarCity 3322 Joe characterizes Oracle's culture as aggressively 'meat eating', prompting Hayes to reframe it as innovative remote software distribution. Hayes details how he pioneered virtual mortgage and solar sales before selling to SolarCity.
Leadership Lessons from Elon Musk and Scaling SolarCity 3412 Joe asks about leadership friction and trade-offs working alongside Elon Musk. Hayes dismisses direct conflict, explaining they complemented each other between product savant design and rapid human capital scaling.
Building Goodleap and Transforming Green Housing Finance 4512 Hayes breaks down Goodleap's B2B point-of-sale financing model for domestic clean tech installations. Joe seeks clarification on how the marketplace connects contractors, institutional banks, and homeowners.
GivePower, Solar Water Farms, and Global Humanitarian Impact 3501 Hayes details his non-profit GivePower and the engineering behind solar-powered desalination containers producing 75,000 liters daily. Joe asks practical questions about capital expenditure and maintenance logistics.
Sustainable Giving Models, Health Benefits, and Women's Empowerment 4401 Hayes explains how partner companies donate $20 per Goodleap transaction to fund water projects and details using M-Pesa to maintain sustainability. Joe adds context regarding how childhood waterborne parasites suppress developmental health and adult IQ.
Energy Transition, Climate Optimism, and Opportunities for Gen Z 5413 Joe introduces counter-arguments regarding solar mining resource limits and the viability of nuclear power. Hayes counters climate pessimism by highlighting massive institutional capital flow and multi-trillion-dollar market expansion for Gen Z builders.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Contradicted
Barnard: Paramount Solar invented selling residential solar digitally
“We kind of invented the ability to sell residential solar digitally, on the internet, over the phone, without meeting with the customer in person.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 5:04
Opinion
Barnard: Elon Musk is the greatest product mind of our generation
“Look, I think Elon is the greatest product mind of our generation. I mean, he is just savant in his ability to design solutions.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 7:00
Assertion Partly supported
Barnard: SolarCity grew to 17,000 employees and 40% US market share
“When I joined SolarCity, we had around you know, 1200 employees. We grew that organization to 17,000 employees. And we were hiring about 500 people a month, to give you an example. And we had 40% market share nationwide. There was no number two, Joe. We had th…”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 8:51
Assertion Contradicted
Barnard: 40% of US Carbon Emissions Come From Homes
“What people don't know is 40% of all carbon emissions in the United States come from the home.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 15:09
Assertion Contradicted
Barnard: Residential Battery Attachment Rate Jumped to 25%
“I mean, the battery storage attachment rates increased significantly over the course of the last couple of years. It used to be two or three percent. Now it's like 25%.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 15:18
Assertion Supported
Barnard: US Roofing Is a $50B Market Versus $12B for Residential Solar
“Now, if you think about other industries, like roofing as an example, roofing's a fifty billion dollar marketplace. That's compared to residential solar, which is about a twelve billion dollar marketplace.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 15:34
Assertion Supported
Barnard: Residential Solar Market Is Growing at 25% Annually
“Growing at 25% a year for residential solar.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 15:46
Assertion Supported
Barnard: HVAC Accounts for 50% of Residential Energy Load
“If you think about that HVAC's, 50% of the load in a home.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 16:14
Assertion Partly supported
GivePower installed solar systems on 2,750 schools across 17 countries
“And so we put solar on 2750 schools in 17 countries.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 17:40
Assertion Supported
Barnard: GivePower desalinates ocean water for 0.25 cents per liter
“And we have the ability to pull that water out of the ocean for half of a half of a cent. So in my mind, it's the most affordable, sustainable, healthy water that can be produced in the developing world per gallon. Yeah, per liter. Half of a half of a cent. So…”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 18:32
Assertion Contradicted
Barnard: Three billion people worldwide lack access to electricity
“Three billion people don't have access to electricity.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 23:39
Prediction Held up
Barnard: EVs will integrate with home bi-directional power in under three years
“Your electric car will be fully integrated in this house we're sitting in in probably under three years with bi-directional inverters where you'll say, well, wait a minute, I kind of want to, you know, deploy energy into my car right now, or maybe I want my ca…”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 27:56
Assertion Supported
Barnard: Only 3% of US homes have residential solar installed
“Only three percent of homes in the United States have residential solar on top of them. It's only growing at about 500,000 homes a year.”
Hayes Barnard Feb 23, 2022 ▶ 33:13
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