Aug 20, 2018 · 36m · a16z

Crypto and the Evolution of Open Source

Devon Zuegel · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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Hosted by Devon Zuegel with a16z crypto partners Denis Nazarov and Jesse Walden, this video explores how cryptonetworks evolve traditional open source software from isolated code libraries into shared, canonical running services. The panel discusses the economic, architectural, and incentive shifts brought by blockchains across digital media, finance, identity, and platform governance.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 4.9 Guest disagreement 1.0 The host pushing back 0.9
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:00–3:54 · The host as informed peer 1/10 Title Cards, Guest Intros, and Legal Disclaimers Devon opens the episode with a broad question asking Dennis to clarify the distinction between libraries and services. Dennis and Jesse lead the discussion, explaining open source incentives and deployment asymmetries using MySQL as an example.3:54–7:12 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Blockchains as Shared Services and the World Computer Devon asks a direct follow-up asking the guests to contrast crypto building blocks with library building blocks. Jesse and Dennis explain how blockchains create canonical single instances rather than fractured code bases.7:12–13:30 · The host as informed peer 5/10 The City Analogy: Blueprints vs. Deployed Infrastructure Devon demonstrates strong Web2 domain knowledge by citing the LinkedIn API shutdown to probe why developers would build on open networks without proprietary control. Dennis and Jesse respond with detailed explanations of tokenized incentive alignment and derivative works.13:30–18:24 · The host as informed peer 6/10 Media Chain, NFTs, and Solving Project Xanadu's Missing Shared State Devon demonstrates historical depth by linking modern crypto metadata and NFTs back to Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu. Dennis and Jesse elaborate on why Xanadu failed due to its lack of a shared state layer.18:24–21:09 · The host as informed peer 0/10 Web2 Black-Box APIs vs. Open Blockchain Implementations Dennis delivers an uninterrupted monologue contrasting Web2 black-box APIs with transparent smart contract execution. As a monologue segment without host intervention, host-side scores are set to zero.21:09–27:03 · The host as informed peer 4/10 Crypto Finance Primitives and Universal Music Libraries Devon asks sharp probing questions about creator royalties and highlights the cold-start problem faced by potential Spotify competitors. Jesse validates her point while explaining composability in DeFi and media protocols.27:03–29:09 · The host as informed peer 8/10 Decentralized Identity, OAuth Limitations, and Credit Scoring Devon takes the lead when asked about identity, articulating a detailed critique of Web2 OAuth limitations and proposing a canonical decentralized identity architecture. Jesse agrees and highlights how this compounds with crypto finance.29:09–36:06 · The host as informed peer 7/10 Protocol Monopolies, Governance, and the San Francisco City Network Effect Devon pushes back against theoretical optimism by drawing a parallel between protocol lock-in and San Francisco's urban infrastructure failures. Dennis and Jesse acknowledge the critique, discussing the social friction of hard forks and governance challenges.0:00–3:54 · Guest teaching 5/10 Title Cards, Guest Intros, and Legal Disclaimers Devon opens the episode with a broad question asking Dennis to clarify the distinction between libraries and services. Dennis and Jesse lead the discussion, explaining open source incentives and deployment asymmetries using MySQL as an example.3:54–7:12 · Guest teaching 6/10 Blockchains as Shared Services and the World Computer Devon asks a direct follow-up asking the guests to contrast crypto building blocks with library building blocks. Jesse and Dennis explain how blockchains create canonical single instances rather than fractured code bases.7:12–13:30 · Guest teaching 5/10 The City Analogy: Blueprints vs. Deployed Infrastructure Devon demonstrates strong Web2 domain knowledge by citing the LinkedIn API shutdown to probe why developers would build on open networks without proprietary control. Dennis and Jesse respond with detailed explanations of tokenized incentive alignment and derivative works.13:30–18:24 · Guest teaching 5/10 Media Chain, NFTs, and Solving Project Xanadu's Missing Shared State Devon demonstrates historical depth by linking modern crypto metadata and NFTs back to Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu. Dennis and Jesse elaborate on why Xanadu failed due to its lack of a shared state layer.18:24–21:09 · Guest teaching 6/10 Web2 Black-Box APIs vs. Open Blockchain Implementations Dennis delivers an uninterrupted monologue contrasting Web2 black-box APIs with transparent smart contract execution. As a monologue segment without host intervention, host-side scores are set to zero.21:09–27:03 · Guest teaching 5/10 Crypto Finance Primitives and Universal Music Libraries Devon asks sharp probing questions about creator royalties and highlights the cold-start problem faced by potential Spotify competitors. Jesse validates her point while explaining composability in DeFi and media protocols.27:03–29:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Decentralized Identity, OAuth Limitations, and Credit Scoring Devon takes the lead when asked about identity, articulating a detailed critique of Web2 OAuth limitations and proposing a canonical decentralized identity architecture. Jesse agrees and highlights how this compounds with crypto finance.29:09–36:06 · Guest teaching 5/10 Protocol Monopolies, Governance, and the San Francisco City Network Effect Devon pushes back against theoretical optimism by drawing a parallel between protocol lock-in and San Francisco's urban infrastructure failures. Dennis and Jesse acknowledge the critique, discussing the social friction of hard forks and governance challenges.0:00–3:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Title Cards, Guest Intros, and Legal Disclaimers Devon opens the episode with a broad question asking Dennis to clarify the distinction between libraries and services. Dennis and Jesse lead the discussion, explaining open source incentives and deployment asymmetries using MySQL as an example.3:54–7:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Blockchains as Shared Services and the World Computer Devon asks a direct follow-up asking the guests to contrast crypto building blocks with library building blocks. Jesse and Dennis explain how blockchains create canonical single instances rather than fractured code bases.7:12–13:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The City Analogy: Blueprints vs. Deployed Infrastructure Devon demonstrates strong Web2 domain knowledge by citing the LinkedIn API shutdown to probe why developers would build on open networks without proprietary control. Dennis and Jesse respond with detailed explanations of tokenized incentive alignment and derivative works.13:30–18:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Media Chain, NFTs, and Solving Project Xanadu's Missing Shared State Devon demonstrates historical depth by linking modern crypto metadata and NFTs back to Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu. Dennis and Jesse elaborate on why Xanadu failed due to its lack of a shared state layer.18:24–21:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Web2 Black-Box APIs vs. Open Blockchain Implementations Dennis delivers an uninterrupted monologue contrasting Web2 black-box APIs with transparent smart contract execution. As a monologue segment without host intervention, host-side scores are set to zero.21:09–27:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Crypto Finance Primitives and Universal Music Libraries Devon asks sharp probing questions about creator royalties and highlights the cold-start problem faced by potential Spotify competitors. Jesse validates her point while explaining composability in DeFi and media protocols.27:03–29:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Decentralized Identity, OAuth Limitations, and Credit Scoring Devon takes the lead when asked about identity, articulating a detailed critique of Web2 OAuth limitations and proposing a canonical decentralized identity architecture. Jesse agrees and highlights how this compounds with crypto finance.29:09–36:06 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Protocol Monopolies, Governance, and the San Francisco City Network Effect Devon pushes back against theoretical optimism by drawing a parallel between protocol lock-in and San Francisco's urban infrastructure failures. Dennis and Jesse acknowledge the critique, discussing the social friction of hard forks and governance challenges.0:00–3:54 · The host pushing back 0/10 Title Cards, Guest Intros, and Legal Disclaimers Devon opens the episode with a broad question asking Dennis to clarify the distinction between libraries and services. Dennis and Jesse lead the discussion, explaining open source incentives and deployment asymmetries using MySQL as an example.3:54–7:12 · The host pushing back 0/10 Blockchains as Shared Services and the World Computer Devon asks a direct follow-up asking the guests to contrast crypto building blocks with library building blocks. Jesse and Dennis explain how blockchains create canonical single instances rather than fractured code bases.7:12–13:30 · The host pushing back 1/10 The City Analogy: Blueprints vs. Deployed Infrastructure Devon demonstrates strong Web2 domain knowledge by citing the LinkedIn API shutdown to probe why developers would build on open networks without proprietary control. Dennis and Jesse respond with detailed explanations of tokenized incentive alignment and derivative works.13:30–18:24 · The host pushing back 1/10 Media Chain, NFTs, and Solving Project Xanadu's Missing Shared State Devon demonstrates historical depth by linking modern crypto metadata and NFTs back to Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu. Dennis and Jesse elaborate on why Xanadu failed due to its lack of a shared state layer.18:24–21:09 · The host pushing back 0/10 Web2 Black-Box APIs vs. Open Blockchain Implementations Dennis delivers an uninterrupted monologue contrasting Web2 black-box APIs with transparent smart contract execution. As a monologue segment without host intervention, host-side scores are set to zero.21:09–27:03 · The host pushing back 2/10 Crypto Finance Primitives and Universal Music Libraries Devon asks sharp probing questions about creator royalties and highlights the cold-start problem faced by potential Spotify competitors. Jesse validates her point while explaining composability in DeFi and media protocols.27:03–29:09 · The host pushing back 0/10 Decentralized Identity, OAuth Limitations, and Credit Scoring Devon takes the lead when asked about identity, articulating a detailed critique of Web2 OAuth limitations and proposing a canonical decentralized identity architecture. Jesse agrees and highlights how this compounds with crypto finance.29:09–36:06 · The host pushing back 3/10 Protocol Monopolies, Governance, and the San Francisco City Network Effect Devon pushes back against theoretical optimism by drawing a parallel between protocol lock-in and San Francisco's urban infrastructure failures. Dennis and Jesse acknowledge the critique, discussing the social friction of hard forks and governance challenges.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%30:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%30:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%33:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%33:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%36:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%36:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 31:42 Dennis refutes the easy-forking narrative

Dennis directly refutes the common crypto assumption that forking easily fixes bad protocol governance, arguing that starting a new city or network from scratch is socially difficult and results in a sad, isolated place.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 30:44 Devon pushes on protocol lock-in via SF analogy

Devon challenges abstract optimism about protocol monopolies by pointing out San Francisco's real-world decaying infrastructure and poor governance, forcing the guests to explain how crypto avoids trapping users in bad networks.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:55 Jesse explains why Project Xanadu lacked shared state

Jesse clarifies the architectural difference between Project Xanadu and blockchains, educating the host on how the absence of a shared state forced copying rather than canonical referencing.

The host holds their own ▶ 27:03 Devon presents thesis on Web2 OAuth vs decentralized identity

Devon showcases extensive domain expertise by laying out the architectural flaws of Web2 OAuth and presenting her own proposed design for canonical decentralized identity.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Title Cards, Guest Intros, and Legal Disclaimers 1510 Devon opens the episode with a broad question asking Dennis to clarify the distinction between libraries and services. Dennis and Jesse lead the discussion, explaining open source incentives and deployment asymmetries using MySQL as an example.
Blockchains as Shared Services and the World Computer 2610 Devon asks a direct follow-up asking the guests to contrast crypto building blocks with library building blocks. Jesse and Dennis explain how blockchains create canonical single instances rather than fractured code bases.
The City Analogy: Blueprints vs. Deployed Infrastructure 5511 Devon demonstrates strong Web2 domain knowledge by citing the LinkedIn API shutdown to probe why developers would build on open networks without proprietary control. Dennis and Jesse respond with detailed explanations of tokenized incentive alignment and derivative works.
Media Chain, NFTs, and Solving Project Xanadu's Missing Shared State 6511 Devon demonstrates historical depth by linking modern crypto metadata and NFTs back to Ted Nelson's Project Xanadu. Dennis and Jesse elaborate on why Xanadu failed due to its lack of a shared state layer.
Web2 Black-Box APIs vs. Open Blockchain Implementations 0610 Dennis delivers an uninterrupted monologue contrasting Web2 black-box APIs with transparent smart contract execution. As a monologue segment without host intervention, host-side scores are set to zero.
Crypto Finance Primitives and Universal Music Libraries 4512 Devon asks sharp probing questions about creator royalties and highlights the cold-start problem faced by potential Spotify competitors. Jesse validates her point while explaining composability in DeFi and media protocols.
Decentralized Identity, OAuth Limitations, and Credit Scoring 8200 Devon takes the lead when asked about identity, articulating a detailed critique of Web2 OAuth limitations and proposing a canonical decentralized identity architecture. Jesse agrees and highlights how this compounds with crypto finance.
Protocol Monopolies, Governance, and the San Francisco City Network Effect 7523 Devon pushes back against theoretical optimism by drawing a parallel between protocol lock-in and San Francisco's urban infrastructure failures. Dennis and Jesse acknowledge the critique, discussing the social friction of hard forks and governance challenges.

Statements from this episode (4)

Assertion Supported
Zuegel: LinkedIn API shutdown forced dependent third-party businesses to close
“When LinkedIn shut down that service, just lots of businesses literally went out of business. They could not function anymore because they were based on that.”
Devon Zuegel Aug 20, 2018 ▶ 9:04
Insight
Nazarov: Blockchains offer open implementations alongside open interfaces
“And I think what's different about blockchains is all these services, the interface is open, but also the implementation is open. So, you know, it's not only can you like benefit from its utility, you can like pull back the covers and see how it's working in r…”
Denis Nazarov Aug 20, 2018 ▶ 20:16
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Nazarov: Blockchain openness will yield unprecedented compounding innovation
“It's again, you know, it's, will be compounding innovation that is unprecedented, you know, in the open source movement for that.”
Denis Nazarov Aug 20, 2018 ▶ 21:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuegel: Web2 OAuth restricts developers through centralized platform gatekeeping
“And it doesn't give you all the information that you could possibly want because it's dependent on Google and Facebook and Twitter and so on, ah, to give you the information that they're willing to give, which is pretty limited.”
Devon Zuegel Aug 20, 2018 ▶ 27:39
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