Jan 2, 2019 · 23m · a16z

a16z Podcast | Embracing Sales

Peter Levine · 9m spoken Chris Wanstrath · 9m spoken Michael Copeland · 3m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this episode of the a16z podcast, host Michael Copeland, GitHub co-founder Chris Wanstroth, and Andreessen Horowitz partner Peter Levine discuss how developer-centric, engineering-led tech startups can overcome early skepticism to build effective, culturally aligned enterprise sales organizations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The host as informed peer 2.4 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 0.0 The host pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:001:55–6:25 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Peter Levine's Evolution from Engineer to Salesperson Michael Copeland prompts Peter Levine to detail his transition from engineer to sales executive. Levine explains how technical founders often resist sales due to early organic product success and misunderstanding the role, reframing sales as educating the customer rather than aggressive pushing.6:25–8:50 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Enterprise Customer Demand Drives Sales Strategy Copeland asks what customer feedback forced GitHub to reconsider its anti-sales stance. Wanstrath explains that developers inside large enterprises loved GitHub but needed internal selling help to convince CIOs and procurement, showing how enterprise demand drives go-to-market structure.8:50–13:03 · The host as informed peer 2/10 Redefining the Sales Role and Hiring The panel discusses dismantling sales stereotypes, such as the aggressive shark wearing a fancy watch. Copeland keeps the tone light and conversational, pointing out the guests' actual watches while Levine and Wanstrath articulate how consultative sales focuses on long-term relationships.13:03–19:59 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Integrating Sales and Engineering Cultures Copeland asks concrete questions about managing cultural friction between engineering and sales teams. Wanstrath and Levine detail onboarding practices and using GitHub's own issues and internal repositories so both functions collaborate on customer feedback seamlessly.19:59–23:09 · The host as informed peer 3/10 Go-to-Market Strategy Evolution and Conclusion Copeland asks whether sales teams are inevitable for all growing companies. Wanstrath reflects on how GitHub's changing target audience required adding sales, while Levine outlines how enterprise software buyers inherently expect dedicated account representation.1:55–6:25 · Guest teaching 3/10 Peter Levine's Evolution from Engineer to Salesperson Michael Copeland prompts Peter Levine to detail his transition from engineer to sales executive. Levine explains how technical founders often resist sales due to early organic product success and misunderstanding the role, reframing sales as educating the customer rather than aggressive pushing.6:25–8:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Enterprise Customer Demand Drives Sales Strategy Copeland asks what customer feedback forced GitHub to reconsider its anti-sales stance. Wanstrath explains that developers inside large enterprises loved GitHub but needed internal selling help to convince CIOs and procurement, showing how enterprise demand drives go-to-market structure.8:50–13:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Redefining the Sales Role and Hiring The panel discusses dismantling sales stereotypes, such as the aggressive shark wearing a fancy watch. Copeland keeps the tone light and conversational, pointing out the guests' actual watches while Levine and Wanstrath articulate how consultative sales focuses on long-term relationships.13:03–19:59 · Guest teaching 3/10 Integrating Sales and Engineering Cultures Copeland asks concrete questions about managing cultural friction between engineering and sales teams. Wanstrath and Levine detail onboarding practices and using GitHub's own issues and internal repositories so both functions collaborate on customer feedback seamlessly.19:59–23:09 · Guest teaching 3/10 Go-to-Market Strategy Evolution and Conclusion Copeland asks whether sales teams are inevitable for all growing companies. Wanstrath reflects on how GitHub's changing target audience required adding sales, while Levine outlines how enterprise software buyers inherently expect dedicated account representation.1:55–6:25 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Peter Levine's Evolution from Engineer to Salesperson Michael Copeland prompts Peter Levine to detail his transition from engineer to sales executive. Levine explains how technical founders often resist sales due to early organic product success and misunderstanding the role, reframing sales as educating the customer rather than aggressive pushing.6:25–8:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Enterprise Customer Demand Drives Sales Strategy Copeland asks what customer feedback forced GitHub to reconsider its anti-sales stance. Wanstrath explains that developers inside large enterprises loved GitHub but needed internal selling help to convince CIOs and procurement, showing how enterprise demand drives go-to-market structure.8:50–13:03 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Redefining the Sales Role and Hiring The panel discusses dismantling sales stereotypes, such as the aggressive shark wearing a fancy watch. Copeland keeps the tone light and conversational, pointing out the guests' actual watches while Levine and Wanstrath articulate how consultative sales focuses on long-term relationships.13:03–19:59 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Integrating Sales and Engineering Cultures Copeland asks concrete questions about managing cultural friction between engineering and sales teams. Wanstrath and Levine detail onboarding practices and using GitHub's own issues and internal repositories so both functions collaborate on customer feedback seamlessly.19:59–23:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Go-to-Market Strategy Evolution and Conclusion Copeland asks whether sales teams are inevitable for all growing companies. Wanstrath reflects on how GitHub's changing target audience required adding sales, while Levine outlines how enterprise software buyers inherently expect dedicated account representation.1:55–6:25 · The host pushing back 0/10 Peter Levine's Evolution from Engineer to Salesperson Michael Copeland prompts Peter Levine to detail his transition from engineer to sales executive. Levine explains how technical founders often resist sales due to early organic product success and misunderstanding the role, reframing sales as educating the customer rather than aggressive pushing.6:25–8:50 · The host pushing back 0/10 Enterprise Customer Demand Drives Sales Strategy Copeland asks what customer feedback forced GitHub to reconsider its anti-sales stance. Wanstrath explains that developers inside large enterprises loved GitHub but needed internal selling help to convince CIOs and procurement, showing how enterprise demand drives go-to-market structure.8:50–13:03 · The host pushing back 0/10 Redefining the Sales Role and Hiring The panel discusses dismantling sales stereotypes, such as the aggressive shark wearing a fancy watch. Copeland keeps the tone light and conversational, pointing out the guests' actual watches while Levine and Wanstrath articulate how consultative sales focuses on long-term relationships.13:03–19:59 · The host pushing back 0/10 Integrating Sales and Engineering Cultures Copeland asks concrete questions about managing cultural friction between engineering and sales teams. Wanstrath and Levine detail onboarding practices and using GitHub's own issues and internal repositories so both functions collaborate on customer feedback seamlessly.19:59–23:09 · The host pushing back 0/10 Go-to-Market Strategy Evolution and Conclusion Copeland asks whether sales teams are inevitable for all growing companies. Wanstrath reflects on how GitHub's changing target audience required adding sales, while Levine outlines how enterprise software buyers inherently expect dedicated account representation.

speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the host 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:17 Wanstrath rejects movie stereotypes of sales

Wanstrath strongly rejects the conventional movie trope of the salesperson as a dishonest pusher, explaining why tech companies resist building traditional sales orgs.

Hardest push from the host ▶ 13:03 Copeland probes on cultural risks of adding sales

Copeland directly challenges the guests on whether the initial fear of sales ruining company culture had real validity and what ongoing risks exist.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:20 Levine explains the paradox of strong product-market fit

Levine educates the listener and host on why early virality creates a blind spot that makes technical founders overly resistant to building go-to-market teams.

The host holds their own ▶ 19:59 Copeland frames the 'when, not if' sales dilemma

Copeland synthesizes the discussion into a sharp, overarching strategic question about whether any enterprise software company can permanently avoid building a sales force.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe host as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe host pushing backWhy
Peter Levine's Evolution from Engineer to Salesperson 2300 Michael Copeland prompts Peter Levine to detail his transition from engineer to sales executive. Levine explains how technical founders often resist sales due to early organic product success and misunderstanding the role, reframing sales as educating the customer rather than aggressive pushing.
Enterprise Customer Demand Drives Sales Strategy 2200 Copeland asks what customer feedback forced GitHub to reconsider its anti-sales stance. Wanstrath explains that developers inside large enterprises loved GitHub but needed internal selling help to convince CIOs and procurement, showing how enterprise demand drives go-to-market structure.
Redefining the Sales Role and Hiring 2300 The panel discusses dismantling sales stereotypes, such as the aggressive shark wearing a fancy watch. Copeland keeps the tone light and conversational, pointing out the guests' actual watches while Levine and Wanstrath articulate how consultative sales focuses on long-term relationships.
Integrating Sales and Engineering Cultures 3300 Copeland asks concrete questions about managing cultural friction between engineering and sales teams. Wanstrath and Levine detail onboarding practices and using GitHub's own issues and internal repositories so both functions collaborate on customer feedback seamlessly.
Go-to-Market Strategy Evolution and Conclusion 3300 Copeland asks whether sales teams are inevitable for all growing companies. Wanstrath reflects on how GitHub's changing target audience required adding sales, while Levine outlines how enterprise software buyers inherently expect dedicated account representation.

Statements from this episode (4)

Insight
Levine: Strong early organic sales makes founders reluctant to build sales teams
“I would argue that the more successful a product is, the better the product market fit is early on, and the more success a company has with no sales organization in the beginning, the more reluctant that company is to bring on sales along the way”
Peter Levine Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 5:28
Disclosure
Wanstroth: GitHub achieved early product-market fit organically without sales
“We initially built GitHub just for ourselves and people who are like us, and so that's where we found a lot of the product market fit, was that the product sort of marketed itself.”
Chris Wanstrath Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 6:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wanstroth: GitHub dogfoods its own issue tracker for internal sales communication
“There's a, we have a GitHub repository internally called GitHub Sales, and the salespeople do talk a lot in issues there, but it's the same exact place where engineers are talking. It's the same exact place where really everyone in the company is talking. So w…”
Chris Wanstrath Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 17:39
Disclosure
Wanstroth admits he was wrong to believe GitHub didn't need sales
“For a while, I think not having a sales team is the right decision for GitHub, and now I believe that having a sales team is the right decision. So, I, a couple years ago, I would have said GitHub is a company that doesn't need sales, and we did say that. Now,…”
Chris Wanstrath Jan 2, 2019 ▶ 20:34
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