Jan 2, 2019 · 39m · a16z
a16z Podcast | How to Be Original and Make Big Ideas Happen
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the a16z Podcast, host Sonal Chokshi and Wharton professor Adam Grant explore the traits, behaviors, and conditions that drive constructive nonconformity and creative originality. They examine how strategic procrastination, diverse cross-domain interests, tactical communication, and organizational culture enable individuals and leaders to turn original ideas into impactful reality.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The host holds 34.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 4.1 Guest disagreement 1.3 The host pushing back 2.9
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:45 Rejecting 'Start With Why' for radical ideas
Adam explicitly rejects Simon Sinek's widely accepted 'start with why' framework, calling it terrible advice for radical originals whose ultimate mission sounds insane to outsiders.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 22:39 Refusing to minimize leadership communicationSonal directly refuses Adam's framing that communication skills are secondary, insisting that leadership, hiring, and startup success depend heavily on effectively communicating a vision.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 27:14 Predicting national patent rates from children's storiesAdam surprises Sonal by presenting macroeconomic research demonstrating that themes of original accomplishment in children's literature statistically predict national patent rate spikes 20 to 40 years later.
The host holds their own ▶ 13:32 Correcting the cultural narrative around PollyannaSonal demonstrates deep familiarity with story structures and film history by correcting the standard dismissive usage of 'Pollyanna', explaining how the narrative actually centers on overcoming severe physical tragedy.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Web Browser Choice as a Signal of Initiative | 4 | 3 | 1 | 3 | Sonal reframes Adam's overview of procrastination by drawing a distinction between productive back-burner exploration and complete task avoidance. Adam responds supportively by incorporating her distinction into research findings on incubation and Minesweeper experiments. | |
| Real-World Deadlines, Task Flexibility, and Aaron Sorkin | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Sonal draws on Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs to question where reality distortion ends and delusion begins. Adam explains how entrepreneurs manage perception by citing Meredith Perry's U-Beam fundraising tactics. | |
| Recruiting Skeptical Optimists and Informed Optimism | 5 | 3 | 2 | 5 | Sonal challenges Adam's suggestion to hide core goals when hiring, arguing that startup alignment requires shared vision. She also corrects the colloquial misuse of 'Pollyanna' by detailing the actual plot of the film regarding overcoming paralysis. | |
| The Expertise Paradox and the Impact of Artistic Hobbies | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Adam shares statistical insights showing that Nobel laureates are significantly more likely to engage in artistic hobbies, illustrating the expertise paradox. Sonal validates the thesis by citing Box CEO Aaron Levie as a real-world example of an executive magician. | |
| Finding the Inverted U-Curve Sweet Spot in Expertise | 6 | 4 | 2 | 5 | Sonal raises the gendered dynamic of expertise and confidence, noting how women are often socialized to qualify their statements. When Adam downplays talking ability relative to ideas, Sonal firmly pushes back, arguing that leadership and recruitment require persuasive communication. | |
| Raising Original Children through Values and Role Modeling | 5 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Adam discusses studies on creative architects whose parents prioritized values over rigid rules. Sonal expands the point by linking nonverbal role modeling to the observed success of first-generation immigrant families and referencing orphan resilience studies. | |
| Children's Literature and Cultural Predictors of Innovation | 5 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Adam presents historical research correlating original themes in children's literature with national patent spikes decades later. Sonal analyzes modern young adult literature trends, highlighting the rise of strong female protagonists and noting how non-linear formats like video games alter narrative influence. | |
| Hiring for Cultural Contribution Over Cultural Fit | 4 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Adam outlines research on Silicon Valley startups showing that hiring for cultural fit leads to post-IPO stagnation, advocating instead for 'cultural contribution'. Sonal reinforces the point, emphasizing that cultural diversity must be driven authentically from top leadership rather than treated as a sidebar. | |
| Navigating Power Differentials and Encouraging Authentic Dissent | 5 | 5 | 2 | 4 | Adam discusses power dynamics and the failure of assigned devil's advocates versus authentic dissent. Sonal pushes back on Adam's suggestion that individuals earn status before exercising power, pointing out that organizational status is frequently assigned through nepotism rather than pure meritocracy. |
Statements from this episode (25)
Grant: True Nonconformists Focus on Improving Things for Others
“When I think about nonconformists, I'm thinking about people who don't just reject the status quo for the sake of being different or for disagreeing, but actually care about making things better for other people.”
Grant: Call center workers using Chrome or Firefox stay 15% longer
“Basically what he found was Chrome and Firefox users were on average getting in call center jobs to customer satisfaction rates in 90 days that took Internet Explorer and Safari users a 120 days to reach. And the Chrome and Firefox users also stuck around 15% …”
Grant: Moderate procrastinators earn higher workplace creativity ratings than extreme procrastinators
“I had a PhD student, Jihei Shin, who studied this, and she found that there was a curvilinear relationship between how often you procrastinate and how creative your supervisors rate you in multiple organizations.”
Grant: Playing Minesweeper before brainstorming boosted business plan creativity by 28%
“So one of G has experiments randomly assigned people to procrastinate before developing business plan ideas by playing minesweeper. And they were, after doing that, 28% more creative than people who jumped right into the task.”
Grant: Opinions on Steve Jobs reveal commentators' biases, not Jobs
“I feel like Steve Jobs is a Rorschach test, where you put him out there, and then whatever response you hear is much more revealing of the person answering than it is of Steve Jobs.”
Grant: Pitching radical ideas requires starting with 'how', not 'why'
“But if you have a really original idea, that's terrible advice, because your why sounds insane to other people. And so if you're Meredith, or if you're Steve Jobs for that matter, sometimes the how is much more believable than the why.”
Adam Grant: Elon Musk pitched SpaceX recruits on orbit before Mars
“This is exactly what Elon Musk did with SpaceX. He didn't recruit his team by saying, let's go to Mars. He said, let's see if we can get a rocket into orbit, and then back.”
Adam Grant: Founders should recruit skeptical optimists over blind believers
“I think, though, that the people that I would want to hire, and that I think Elon wants to hire, are skeptical optimists.”
Adam Grant: Deep domain expertise leads to cognitive entrenchment
“The longer you learn a particular domain of knowledge, and the more you internalize it, the easier it is to become entrenched, where you basically take for granted assumptions that need to get questioned.”
Grant: Nobel laureates are 22 times more likely to perform or act
“On average, Nobel Prize winners are twice as likely to play a musical instrument. They're seven times as likely to paint and do other kinds of art. They're 12 times as likely to write creative fiction, poetry, and they're 22 times as likely to act, dance, or p…”
Grant: Galileo wouldn't have discovered lunar mountains without artistic training
“And in that case, if he had not been an artist, he never would have made that discovery.”
Adam Grant: Every positive trait or experience follows an inverted U-curve
“I wrote a paper about this a couple of years ago with Barry Schwartz, where we argued that everything in life is an inverted U and that, you know, if you take any strength or virtue or positive experience, you can find too much of a good thing where, you know,…”
Grant: Experts are believed more when they express uncertainty
“So Zach Termala at Stanford has these studies showing that experts are believed more when they express uncertainty.”
Grant: Empirical data shows zero correlation between talking ability and idea quality
“Susan Cain is fond of saying that there's zero correlation between who's the best talker and who has the best ideas. And that's true empirically.”
Grant: The self-esteem movement has been disastrous for entrepreneurs
“I would also say that the self-esteem movement has been disastrous for entrepreneurs in the sense that Becoming a successful entrepreneur is not about thinking that you're special. It's about believing that, you know, somebody else could do this. Maybe I could…”
Grant: Highly creative architects were raised with freedom to define their own values
“One of the things that came out was that the parents of the creative architects tended to focus less on rules and more on values, but that they gave their children a lot of freedom to actually determine their own values.”
Grant: Children's books with innovation themes predict patent rates decades later
“So if you look at the children's literature of a particular era, when that literature starts to include examples of people accomplishing things and succeeding in ways that are new and innovative, Patent rates actually spiked 20 to 40 years later.”
Grant: Thiel, Musk, Bezos, and Sandberg cite fantasy and sci-fi childhood favorites
“If you asked Peter Thiel and Elon Musk to name their favorite childhood books, they both picked Lord of the Rings. Jeff Bezos and Sheryl Sandberg both said A Wrinkle in Time.”
Grant: J.K. Rowling is the most influential original thinker alive
“I really think Harry Potter is going to have this impact. I would probably put my money on JK Rowling as the most influential original alive because Harry Potter sold more books than any other series, except maybe the Bible.”
Grant: Reading Harry Potter reduces prejudice and stereotyping in children
“There's also academic research now showing that after kids read Harry Potter, they become less prejudiced. So they learn not to stereotype people in the way that wizards look down on muggles.”
Grant: Hiring for cultural fit boosts IPO odds but slows post-IPO growth
“Founders who hire on cultural fit are less likely to see their startups fail, and they're more likely to make it to IPO. And then after IPO, their firms grow at a much slower rate than the ones that hire on skill or potential.”
Grant: Growing companies should switch from hiring for cultural fit to cultural contribution
“At some point as your organization grows and you need to start questioning the very values that made you successful in the first place, you want to stop hiring on cultural fit and start hiring on cultural contribution.”
Adam Grant: Women face double standards when voicing workplace ideas
“When a woman and a man make the same point, the man gets a big pat on the back and people start to rally around him, and the woman is either not heard or punished for being too aggressive.”