Jan 2, 2019 · 27m · a16z
a16z Podcast | Teams, Trust, and Object Lessons
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the a16z Podcast, tech leaders Ben Horowitz and Dick Costolo discuss how military leadership principles, executive resilience, radical candor, and operational focus drive effective team management and company culture in Silicon Valley.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 1.3 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 2.0 The host pushing back 1.1
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 20:29 Ben calls host's premise a tautology
Ben explicitly rejects the host's premise regarding Israel's military startup engine, calling it a tautology because military service is compulsory for all citizens.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 13:07 Host challenges Ben on crushing career dreamsHost directly challenges Ben on his commencement speech advice, asking him why he chose to crush everyone's dreams by telling graduates not to follow their passion.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 19:17 Ben corrects host's assumption about thick skinWhen the host asserts that leaders under fire do not need thick skin but just open engagement, Ben corrects him directly by explaining that harsh public attacks still deeply hurt.
The host holds their own ▶ 13:07 Host cites Ben's Columbia speech to challenge his philosophyHost demonstrates preparation by bringing up Ben's specific Columbia commencement speech and using its core thesis to challenge his stance on career guidance.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Military Leadership Principles Applied to Silicon Valley | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Host sets up the premise asking if military leadership transfers to Silicon Valley. Ben and Dick respond with detailed anecdotes from Sun Tzu, military management books, and Twitter IPO experiences without host interruption or challenge. | |
| Wartime versus Peacetime CEO Management Styles | 1 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Host asks if wartime versus peacetime CEOs is a real distinction or gradations of war. Ben politely reframes the question by noting he authored the original blog post on the topic and clarifies the distinct operational requirements of each context. | |
| Building Trust and Retention in Technology Companies | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Host asks Dick how to build trust during tough times and offers a brief summary question on clarity versus truthfulness. Dick and Ben elaborate on direct communication, managing expectations, and personal leadership development. | |
| Evaluating Military Veterans in Startup Environments | 1 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Host asks about positive and negative biases when hiring military veterans. Dick and Ben educate the host on resilience, lack of drama, and understanding team-first culture versus civilian hires. | |
| Following Contribution Over Passion in Career Development | 2 | 4 | 3 | 3 | Host brings up Ben's Columbia speech with a provocative framing, asking why he wants to crush dreams by telling graduates not to follow passion. Ben counters by telling the host to listen to the whole speech and reframes the topic around contribution. | |
| The Role of Entrepreneurship and Execution in Startups | 2 | 3 | 3 | 2 | Host attempts to summarize leadership resilience by suggesting leaders just need to be truthful rather than thick-skinned. Ben immediately pushes back, noting that brutal media attacks still hurt feelings regardless of experience. | |
| Systems Thinking and Leadership Training in the Military | 1 | 5 | 4 | 2 | Host asks what Silicon Valley is missing compared to Israel's military company creation pipeline. Ben rejects the host's premise as a tautology since military service is mandatory in Israel, shifting the discussion to systems thinking and leadership training. | |
| Q&A: Constructive Discipline versus Destructive Behavior | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Host hands over the segment to an audience question about constructive public discipline versus bad leadership. Ben and Dick answer the audience member directly before the host briefly concludes the panel. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Horowitz: All my favorite management books are military books
“All my favorite management books are military books, so there's, like, The Art of War, there's the Colin Powell book, My American Journey, there's The Black Jacobin, so the Toussaint Louverture book.”
Horowitz: All-hands speeches fail; object lessons drive real behavioral change
“Speeches don't do anything, but like an object lesson like that, cut his head off. They're like, okay, like everybody learned that, and nobody's ever going to forget it. You give an all-hand speech, nobody's going to remember it tomorrow”
Costolo: Twitter priced its IPO at $16 before hitting $47
“The night of the IPO, you know, the stock was at, like, 47, and we had priced it at 16 on the S-One, like, two weeks earlier”
Horowitz: Management books are written almost entirely for peacetime environments
“Management books are written almost entirely from the perspective of peacetime, and so that, that was the thing that I was trying to get out. They're designed to make it look simple, and so then a lot of the things stylistically that come out of it, like one o…”
Horowitz: Wartime CEOs must prioritize strict discipline over employee feelings
“It does get down to, look, there are times when you need so much precision that, like, if you're gonna lose somebody in the whatever war for talent because they got their feelings hurt, well, that's just gonna be how it's gotta be, because you need to Teach th…”
Costolo: CEOs can operate in wartime and peacetime simultaneously across departments
“Yeah, sometimes you're both at the same time inside the company, right? With, I remember there were times at Twitter where, with the sales team, I could focus on All right, this is really good. This engine's really working. It's going well. Let's focus on, you…”
Horowitz: Leadership flaws get magnified across teams, requiring self-work for retention
“You kind of get the environment that you create. You get the people who will behave the way you do. And so, like, your flaws get magnified in a really horrifying way if you don't work on them. So, like, I think one of the most important things to get loyalty i…”
Costolo: Military veterans ignore media noise like mean Business Insider posts
“I know they're gonna come in, they're gonna be mentally tough, they're gonna work their ass off, and they'll be, like, not distracted by, like, Nonsense, like, oh, there's a bad, mean blog post about us in Business Insider.”
Horowitz: Stanford and Berkeley grads often lack veterans' sense of purpose
“And a lot of people come out of Stanford or, you know Berkeley Computer Center don't understand what that means and don't understand what it means to do something bigger than yourself. But if somebody's been in the Marines or, you know, and decided to do that,…”
Horowitz: People become passionate about work because they excel at it
“People who are super successful go, yeah, I'm totally passionate about my work, but it didn't start that way, right? They, they're passionate because they're successful. Like, they're great at it. They love doing it, you know, like, if they sucked at it, they …”
Horowitz: "Follow your passion" is the most self-centered career advice ever
“I always thought Follow Your Passion was the most self-centered, like, Advice like ever.”
Horowitz: Tech companies function better with fewer entrepreneurs and more soldiers
“It's better if most people aren't entrepreneurs than too many generals, not enough soldiers.”
Costolo: Great entrepreneurs succeed because they forget the pain of starting companies
“Entrepreneurs, people who are great entrepreneurs have, like, and have amazing short-term memory loss.”
Horowitz: CEOs are paid to make unpopular decisions, not build consensus
“If, as a leader, everybody likes what you do, you're not, you're a politician. Like, you're running for president at that point. You get paid to make the decision that's unpopular, right? Like, if everybody knows the direction the organization should go in, th…”
Horowitz: All outstanding CEOs face public calls for their firing
“And if you look at any of the really outstanding CEOs, they've all gone through that.”
Horowitz told Andreessen he could fire him without a formal conversation
“I'd say to Mark was on my board. I'd say, Mark, look, if you need to fire me, You don't even have to sit me down and tell me I'm fired. You just, like, tap me on the shoulder and, like, we don't have the conversation. Like, I'm done. If you think I'm not the b…”
Costolo told Twitter's board he would leave peacefully without severance if asked
“I mean, I had the exact same conversation with my board many times, you know, long before the IPO. Like, hey, listen, when it comes time for, don't ever have any conversation behind my back about it. Just come tell me you're not the guy anymore, and I'll, like…”
Costolo: Leading to please your board creates misery and failure
“If you don't have that attitude about it, you're just going to be, you know, then you're just going to be miserable, and you're not going to be able to lead, because you're going to be constantly thinking, well, what would the board be happy if I do, right? An…”
Horowitz: US colleges and business schools lack meaningful leadership training
“There is no leadership Real leadership training, for sure, in college here, and typically, ah, not even in business school. There's no leadership training, or no meaningful leadership training”
Costolo: Veterans understand team alignment better than 95% of Valley managers
“If I had to summarize Ben's management course, it's make sure everybody understands what you understand, and people coming in from the military have that perspective much more deeply ingrained in them than 95% of people who are in management roles in Silicon V…”