Jan 2, 2019 · 34m · a16z
a16z Podcast | The Asshole Survival Guide
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the a16z podcast, host Hannah talks with author Bob Sutton and venture capitalist Michael Dearing about identifying, surviving, and neutralizing toxic workplace dynamics. Together, they outline actionable psychological reframing techniques, boundary-setting tactics, and organizational strategies for navigating difficult personalities and high-power hierarchies.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The host as informed peer 2.9 Guest teaching 3.3 Guest disagreement 1.8 The host pushing back 2.3
speaking balance: gold is the host, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:25 Dismissal of Emotional Intelligence
Bob flatly rejects Hannah's premise that EQ is critical, asserting forcefully that EQ is one of the most overrated concepts on the planet.
Hardest push from the host ▶ 22:20 Pushing Back on Transactional ViewHannah pushes back on Michael's frame of transactional trade by introducing a non-complementary behavior study from Invisibilia to offer a contrasting paradigm.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:32 Schooling on EQ Research MythsBob educates the host by contrasting popularizers who got rich selling EQ with actual Yale research showing EQ predicts job success at only one-tenth the level of standard IQ.
The host holds their own ▶ 22:20 Citing External Psychological ResearchHannah demonstrates domain knowledge by citing an external podcast and psychological case study on non-complementary behavior to expand the scope of the guests' discussion.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The host as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The host pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Evaluating Career Survival, Mind Tricks, and Exit Strategies | 3 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Hannah actively guides the discussion on exit strategies and offers a driving analogy about maintaining escape routes. Michael reframes the law clerk's dilemma, noting that being stuck is often a misconception when options are cultivated. | |
| Distinguishing Asshole Behavior from Personality Quirks | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Hannah asks about distinguishing actual toxic behavior from prickly personality quirks. Bob explains the 'porcupine with a heart of gold' concept, distinguishing between a bad user interface and core character. | |
| Strategies for Defense, Escape, and Constructive Confrontation | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Hannah categorizes defense strategies into protective versus proactive/challenging approaches. She offers an insightful observation about humor serving as a mirror that forces a pause in bad behavior. | |
| Disruptive Humor, Self-Awareness, and Emotional Intelligence Critiques | 2 | 7 | 5 | 3 | Bob forcefully dismisses the host's premise that emotional intelligence (EQ) is vital for these situations, calling EQ one of the most overrated concepts and citing Yale research showing it is far less important than IQ. Hannah expresses surprise and prompts him to elaborate on this counter-intuitive view. | |
| Psychological Safety, Cognitive Dissonance, and Mutual Trade | 3 | 3 | 2 | 2 | The guests explore psychological safety, cognitive behavioral techniques, and trade relationships. Bob outlines the Benjamin Franklin effect, showing how asking for a favor creates cognitive dissonance that reduces hostility. | |
| Givers, Non-Complementary Behavior, and Environmental Distance | 4 | 2 | 1 | 3 | Hannah challenges the transactional view of interactions by bringing up an Invisibilia case study on non-complementary behavior during a robbery. Bob explains physical distance metrics (the Allen curve) in open office environments. | |
| Navigating Organizational Quirks, Power Dynamics, and Fixers | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Michael shares an anecdote about a Disney executive's binder clip obsession to illustrate underlying motivations. Bob details how power differentials, documentation, and allies shift tactical options. | |
| Petty Tyrants, Societal Trends, and Podcast Conclusion | 3 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Bob discusses 'petty tyrants' (power without status) and presents his 'peak asshole' hypothesis driven by inequality, online anonymity, and rush culture. Hannah connects status anxiety to underlying insecurity. |
Statements from this episode (20)
Sutton: An asshole leaves others demeaned, de-energized, or disrespected
“The way I define an asshole is from the receiver's standpoint, somebody who leaves you feeling demeaned, de-energized, disrespected.”
Sutton: Be slow to label others as assholes, quick to judge yourself
“If you look at all the biases we have as human beings, it's probably best to be slow to label other people as assholes and to be fast to label ourselves.”
Dearing: Delivering hard management choices does not require being abrasive
“The decision you're taking can be a difficult and inherently negative one, but the wrapper, the container that you put it in doesn't have to be barbed wire covered with dog poop.”
Dearing: Continuously cultivate career options to avoid being trapped
“It would be about Cultivating those options while you go so that you are never stuck. You never want to be stuck realizing, okay, I work for the wrong person. She or he treats me like garbage. I don't have other options. I have to start cold start cultivating …”
Sutton: Unpleasant colleagues often just have a bad user interface
“There are certain people who just, they just have a bad UI. And once you get to know them are actually great.”
Sutton: Manage toxicity by exiting, defending yourself, or fighting back
“There's three basic kinds of strategies. There's you get out. The other one is you reduce the damage you suffer, which is either by kind of getting away from the toxins or not having them bother you so much. And then the last one is changing the, your situatio…”
Sutton: Emotional intelligence is only 10% as important as IQ
“EQ is one of the most overrated concepts on the planet. It's there, it matters, but if you look at the evidence, it's about, a good guess, 10% as important as old-fashioned IQ.”
Sutton: High emotional intelligence enables malicious manipulation of others
“People with high EQ are especially good at manipulating others to ill means. So it exists, but it's a concept that has been way over glorified.”
Sutton: Humans lack self-awareness and cannot judge their own toxic behavior
“The evidence about self-awareness is we just suck, and the worst person to ask if they're an asshole”
Sutton: Self-awareness requires external peer feedback, not internal reflection
“In terms of self-awareness, the researchers who studied this essentially say, don't look in the mirror. Find somebody you know and trust and ask them, what do you think?”
Sutton: Effective relationships embrace intense conflict motivated by shared interest
“I believe that the most effective human relationships are frank and actually can get conflict that to outsiders can look pretty ugly, but the difference is that when it's done in the context of, I'm doing this in our collective or your best interest, even thou…”
Sutton: Getting a hostile person to do a favor reduces their dislike
“There's very good evidence that if somebody does a favor for you, it's really hard for them to dislike you because of the two dissonant elements, which is, I don't like this person, but I'm doing a favor for him or her.”
Sutton: Office communication drops sharply beyond 60 feet of physical distance
“Essentially once you got more than 60 feet away from someone, and this was in a closed office environment, you might as well be in another country.”
Sutton: Proximity to a toxic coworker dramatically increases job loss risk
“What this research shows is if you're within 25 feet of a toxic person, so what I would call an asshole, the chances you're gonna become toxic and lose your job go way up.”
Dearing: Use automated email filters to erase toxic people from your inbox
“Now I use it on other people and I have a robust filter system in my email.”
Dearing: Managers can reduce friction by briefly explaining peculiar demands
“And so I think a shock absorber for managers is when you know that it sounds like what you're saying might be a little unreasonable. Just give a two sentence explanation for the context.”
Sutton: Baird CEO Paul Purcell enforced an explicit no asshole policy
“Paul Purcell, he was CEO for years, W.R. Baird, now called Baird Financial Services Firm. They have a no asshole role. He tells people during the interview, if I find out you're an asshole, I'm going to fire you”
Sutton: Effective toxic leaders rely on dedicated workplace toxic handlers
“If you were going to be an effective asshole, Get yourself a toxic handler. To calm people, people down to clean up the mess, to tell them that it really wasn't that bad.”
Sutton: Power without respect turns individuals into vindictive jerks
“In general with human beings, if you put them in a position where they have some power over people, but they don't have prestige, they're not esteemed. And it turns out that having power without having stature or respect. So you think of somebody at the DMV wh…”