The Exchanges

Q And then what's one that got away startup wise for you that plays on your mind?

A Oh, I'm still upset about, uh, Dropbox. Um, it was one of the first, one of the first companies I, I met, uh, Drew through, uh, the guys that started Zomni, who were in his class at, very early class at YC. Loved what Drew was building. Thought it was a great product. Uh, actually had a term sheet out to him. Ended up losing on valuation and a very, very small, uh, Uh, differential on ballot valuation, which was a massive lesson for me in that, you know, there are crazy valuations and there are not crazy valuations, but when you're talking about 10, 15% differential for, you know, for a company that is, you know, for any company that is a relatively binary outcome. Um, that's a silly mistake to make, and I don't think I've ever made it again.

AI assessment note: “Oh, I'm still upset about, uh, Dropbox.”

Q And then external of the first round partnership, who's influenced you most in the VC business and why?

A One of the people that has certainly influenced me in the VC business, uh, is, uh, uh, Bob Cagle, uh, one of the founders of Benchmark. Very early on in my career, I sat on the board of mint.com with him. And, uh, one of the things I noticed was that in board meetings, he was the kind of guy that, Sat very quietly, listened very intently, and when he spoke, it was because he had something very important to say, but it also meant that he didn't speak a whole lot. And, you know, being in a bunch of different board meetings over the last decade plus, where I've seen people, you know, kind of grandstanding, speaking to the sound of their own voice, you know, and generally kind of Gumming up the works. That stood out to me as like, that's not the way you have to act. Watching Bob, who was one of the most successful, if not the most successful venture capitalists ever, watching the way that he conducted himself with companies, it was clear to me that you didn't have to be that other way to be successful, which was something that fit much more with my style anyway.

AI assessment note: “Bob Cagle, uh, one of the founders of Benchmark.”

Q Um, I don't know what to say is that one. You got Uber. Hey, you got Uber. I wouldn't be too sad. And then your favorite blog or newsletter, what's your must reads?

A So I'm a venture capitalist. I'm a creature of habit, and I also get very caught up in my day very, very quickly. You know, I, there's a lot of things that I read. Okay, so I'll give you two. One is like, My industry related. Um, and that is, that is, uh, uh, Dan Primack's term sheet. Yeah. And that, you know, it shows up, it basically shows up in my inbox every morning about the time I wake up. Always the first thing I read every morning and kind of, you know, if there's anything going on that I didn't know about it, now I know about it thanks to Dan in my industry. And the other thing that I read incessantly because I'm a political junkie is I read, um, I read a bunch of political blogs, but probably Talking Points Memo is the one that I read the most just because, um, I'm fascinated by the political process, and especially with this presidential election, we're going through even more fascinated with, you know, how these things work, or, or, you know, maybe more bluntly how they don't work. So, um, those are the types of things that keep me, keep me interested.

AI assessment note: “Talking Points Memo is the one that I read the most”

Q So Uber, um, and, and these questions following are mostly from David Hornick at August. So we've got him. Now, how can we not start with the Holy Grail? So a seed investor in Uber. So talk to me about how that came about and what made you invest?

A Um, so, you know, we were early investors in, um, Garrett Camp's, uh, previous company StumbleUpon. And so I'd gotten to know Garrett Through that. So in, you know, uh, 20, uh, what is it? 20 10. He was, uh, tweeting out about this thing called Uber cab, and I sent him an email. It said, it's, it had four words in it. It said, all by what's Uber cab. Um, And, and, uh, as you can imagine, I still have that. I, you know, that email is, is, is somewhat well known now in, in, in the firm. And so he introduced me to Ryan Graves, who was at the time the general manager of Uber and running the company. Met Ryan, uh, you know, learned about the company, you know, used the product and thought that it was, uh, astonishingly good, you know, and especially in San Francisco where taxis were so, I think people had just given up on taxis. And so, you know, we decided that, you We wanted to invest. I negotiated a term sheet over the Fourth of July holiday in, uh, in, in, in, and we ended up closing the investment in August of .

AI assessment note: “used the product and thought that it was, uh, astonishingly good”

Q And then what's one that got away startup wise for you that plays on your mind?

A Oh, I'm still upset about, uh, Dropbox. Um, it was one of the first, one of the first companies I, I met, uh, Drew through, uh, the guys that started Zomni, who were in his class at, very early class at YC. Loved what Drew was building. Thought it was a great product. Uh, actually had a term sheet out to him. Ended up losing on valuation and a very, very small, uh, Uh, differential on ballot valuation, which was a massive lesson for me in that, you know, there are crazy valuations and there are not crazy valuations, but when you're talking about 10, 15% differential for, you know, for a company that is, you know, for any company that is a relatively binary outcome. Um, that's a silly mistake to make, and I don't think I've ever made it again.

AI assessment note: “Oh, I'm still upset about, uh, Dropbox.”

Q And then external of the first round partnership, who's influenced you most in the VC business and why?

A One of the people that has certainly influenced me in the VC business, uh, is, uh, uh, Bob Cagle, uh, one of the founders of Benchmark. Very early on in my career, I sat on the board of mint.com with him. And, uh, one of the things I noticed was that in board meetings, he was the kind of guy that, Sat very quietly, listened very intently, and when he spoke, it was because he had something very important to say, but it also meant that he didn't speak a whole lot. And, you know, being in a bunch of different board meetings over the last decade plus, where I've seen people, you know, kind of grandstanding, speaking to the sound of their own voice, you know, and generally kind of Gumming up the works. That stood out to me as like, that's not the way you have to act. Watching Bob, who was one of the most successful, if not the most successful venture capitalists ever, watching the way that he conducted himself with companies, it was clear to me that you didn't have to be that other way to be successful, which was something that fit much more with my style anyway.

AI assessment note: “One of the people that has certainly influenced me in the VC business, uh, is, uh, uh, Bob Cagle”

Q Um, I don't know what to say is that one. You got Uber. Hey, you got Uber. I wouldn't be too sad. And then your favorite blog or newsletter, what's your must reads?

A So I'm a venture capitalist. I'm a creature of habit, and I also get very caught up in my day very, very quickly. You know, I, there's a lot of things that I read. Okay, so I'll give you two. One is like, My industry related. Um, and that is, that is, uh, uh, Dan Primack's term sheet. Yeah. And that, you know, it shows up, it basically shows up in my inbox every morning about the time I wake up. Always the first thing I read every morning and kind of, you know, if there's anything going on that I didn't know about it, now I know about it thanks to Dan in my industry. And the other thing that I read incessantly because I'm a political junkie is I read, um, I read a bunch of political blogs, but probably Talking Points Memo is the one that I read the most just because, um, I'm fascinated by the political process, and especially with this presidential election, we're going through even more fascinated with, you know, how these things work, or, or, you know, maybe more bluntly how they don't work. So, um, those are the types of things that keep me, keep me interested.

AI assessment note: “Dan Primack's term sheet... and probably Talking Points Memo is the one that I read”

Q So Uber, um, and, and these questions following are mostly from David Hornick at August. So we've got him. Now, how can we not start with the Holy Grail? So a seed investor in Uber. So talk to me about how that came about and what made you invest?

A Um, so, you know, we were early investors in, um, Garrett Camp's, uh, previous company StumbleUpon. And so I'd gotten to know Garrett Through that. So in, you know, uh, 20, uh, what is it? 20 10. He was, uh, tweeting out about this thing called Uber cab, and I sent him an email. It said, it's, it had four words in it. It said, all by what's Uber cab. Um, And, and, uh, as you can imagine, I still have that. I, you know, that email is, is, is somewhat well known now in, in, in the firm. And so he introduced me to Ryan Graves, who was at the time the general manager of Uber and running the company. Met Ryan, uh, you know, learned about the company, you know, used the product and thought that it was, uh, astonishingly good, you know, and especially in San Francisco where taxis were so, I think people had just given up on taxis. And so, you know, we decided that, you We wanted to invest. I negotiated a term sheet over the Fourth of July holiday in, uh, in, in, in, and we ended up closing the investment in August of .

AI assessment note: “used the product and thought that it was, uh, astonishingly good”

Q really intrigued in terms of adding value. Uh, one thing that always kind of slightly perplexes me as a dichotomy in VC is just the fact that do you pre-investment, do you aim to add as much value as possible in a bid to kind of not coerce, but encourage them to be invested in with you? Or do you hold back the value until they have invested with you?

A I always start with an orientation of helping, right? And so I'm going to help. I'm going to try to figure out how I can help everybody that needs. And I, and, and there are people, you know, five minutes into my first meeting with them, I know that I'm not going to be an investor, but I still want to figure out how I can help them. I think it's probably helpful in terms of understanding what it's like to work with me when companies see I am able to be helpful and first round is able to be helpful. Um, you know, even before the investment, but it's, it's not, it's not a marketing strategy. It's just, it's just, again, the orientation that we take. This is remember, this is a longterm business, you know, and reputations are made, you know, over careers and they're lost over deals. Anybody that I meet today, even if they have a company, That I know I'm not going to invest in today. I want them to remember that, you know, the experience of talking with me, uh, the feedback I gave, uh, the introductions I was able to make. Were helpful enough that when they're starting their next company, even if I wasn't their investor in their first company, they still reach out to me because at least I was, you know, a relatively good guy in the whole process.

AI assessment note: “I am able to be helpful and first round is able to be helpful”

Q Now that's just too enticing. That's obviously not a question on the schedule, but what is wrong with corporate funds then? Tell me.

A Well, I think that, uh, I think that the way corporate funds tend to get started are bigger companies see smaller startup companies achieve a lot of success and they achieve a lot of success sometimes through partnerships with these larger companies. So leveraging these larger companies as a channel. And so the larger companies say, Well, gosh, you know, if these companies are, are, you know, gonna, you know, achieve success on our backs, we should have a piece of that success. They go out and try to, try to get an equity share of each of these companies, um, so that if the company blows up, they see some of the benefit of that. Now, the challenge is, these are called sometimes strategic funds, and strategies change, CEOs change, you know, companies start doing, you know, more poorly than they did before when they started the venture fund, that sort of thing, and so, Um, I, I find a strong correlation with when, uh, uh, corporate funds get started and with the top of the VC market and for, and I'll give the one example. I started the corporate venture fund at Palm in April of 2000, which, you know, is well known to be kind of the peak of the internet bubble market.

AI assessment note: “strategies change, CEOs change, you know, companies start doing, you know, more poorly”

Q And I have to ask, when you invested, did you have any idea of the scale it could become? Because, because when I started using it, it was mostly kind of a premium, premium, premium, luxury kind of cab service. Um, so did you ever imagine it to be literally the transportation for the masses?

A Uh, no. I mean, anybody that says that they did, other than, you know, Travis and Ryan, who actually did kind of have that vision early on, uh, would be, would be lying to you. I think that, I try to see things that people can't see, and I think that, you know, a lot of people had a chance to, you know, a lot of people had looked at Uber, you know, at the same time I was, or Uber Cab at the time, at the same time that I was looking at the company. And I think that as a, as a, as a venture capitalist, you can look for reasons to invest or you, you can look for reasons not to invest. And I think it's sometimes harder to look for the reasons to invest. But I think a lot of the reasons that people didn't invest were one, at the time it was an unknown guy, Ryan Graves, uh, running the company and two, It was seen as not a very big market. And the way I looked at it was like, listen, I mean, I'm a seed investor. My job is to find those people that people haven't met before or heard of or worked with before, you know, make decisions as to whether I think that person can be someone that can, you know, have a real impact. In Ryan's case, it turned out to be true. I mean, he, he's an amazing guy. And, and, you know, if you look at You know, the, the impact that he's had on Uber and the culture there and, you know, how they, you know, kind of started, you know, going from city to city and…

AI assessment note: “Uh, no. I mean, anybody that says that they did... would be lying”

Q And when did that kind of lightning strike for you? Was there a particular time when you thought, holy shit, this could be incredibly huge, not just huge?

A There were a couple of things. Uh, one was, you know, early on they received, there was perceived to be a lot of regulatory risk for the company. Um, and I, you know, I think that that's bored out, but I think that the first one of those was, uh, a letter they got from the city of San Francisco that was, you know, as well known, it was published in TechCrunch when it happened and, and that sort of thing saying that they were doing something wrong, right? And the company, instead of, you know, backing down, like I think a lot of companies would when they get a very legal sounding letter, said this isn't right, and this is not good for customers, and this is not what individuals want, right? This is, this is not, this is not a product that, you know, should be shut down because of, you know, a, a single small constituency in the city. Um, and so they, they figured out a way to work with the powers that be to, to, to, Make sure that the product Ubers could continue to run in San Francisco, and that was the beginning of a long line of trying to figure out how to work with these regulatory bodies to make sure that Uber could coexist peacefully with the, with the existing status quo players. The other thing was when they made their initial move into Europe, you know, there was, you know, there was, there was a question as to whether this was a, is this a US-only type of company, or i…

AI assessment note: “There were a couple of things. Uh, one was, you know, early on”

Q really intrigued in terms of adding value. Uh, one thing that always kind of slightly perplexes me as a dichotomy in VC is just the fact that do you pre-investment, do you aim to add as much value as possible in a bid to kind of not coerce, but encourage them to be invested in with you? Or do you hold back the value until they have invested with you?

A I always start with an orientation of helping, right? And so I'm going to help. I'm going to try to figure out how I can help everybody that needs. And I, and, and there are people, you know, five minutes into my first meeting with them, I know that I'm not going to be an investor, but I still want to figure out how I can help them. I think it's probably helpful in terms of understanding what it's like to work with me when companies see I am able to be helpful and first round is able to be helpful. Um, you know, even before the investment, but it's, it's not, it's not a marketing strategy. It's just, it's just, again, the orientation that we take. This is remember, this is a longterm business, you know, and reputations are made, you know, over careers and they're lost over deals. Anybody that I meet today, even if they have a company, That I know I'm not going to invest in today. I want them to remember that, you know, the experience of talking with me, uh, the feedback I gave, uh, the introductions I was able to make. Were helpful enough that when they're starting their next company, even if I wasn't their investor in their first company, they still reach out to me because at least I was, you know, a relatively good guy in the whole process.

AI assessment note: “I always start with an orientation of helping, right? And so I'm going to help.”

Q Now that's just too enticing. That's obviously not a question on the schedule, but what is wrong with corporate funds then? Tell me.

A Well, I think that, uh, I think that the way corporate funds tend to get started are bigger companies see smaller startup companies achieve a lot of success and they achieve a lot of success sometimes through partnerships with these larger companies. So leveraging these larger companies as a channel. And so the larger companies say, Well, gosh, you know, if these companies are, are, you know, gonna, you know, achieve success on our backs, we should have a piece of that success. They go out and try to, try to get an equity share of each of these companies, um, so that if the company blows up, they see some of the benefit of that. Now, the challenge is, these are called sometimes strategic funds, and strategies change, CEOs change, you know, companies start doing, you know, more poorly than they did before when they started the venture fund, that sort of thing, and so, Um, I, I find a strong correlation with when, uh, uh, corporate funds get started and with the top of the VC market and for, and I'll give the one example. I started the corporate venture fund at Palm in April of 2000, which, you know, is well known to be kind of the peak of the internet bubble market.

AI assessment note: “strategies change, CEOs change, you know, companies start doing, you know, more poorly”

Q And I have to ask, when you invested, did you have any idea of the scale it could become? Because, because when I started using it, it was mostly kind of a premium, premium, premium, luxury kind of cab service. Um, so did you ever imagine it to be literally the transportation for the masses?

A Uh, no. I mean, anybody that says that they did, other than, you know, Travis and Ryan, who actually did kind of have that vision early on, uh, would be, would be lying to you. I think that, I try to see things that people can't see, and I think that, you know, a lot of people had a chance to, you know, a lot of people had looked at Uber, you know, at the same time I was, or Uber Cab at the time, at the same time that I was looking at the company. And I think that as a, as a, as a venture capitalist, you can look for reasons to invest or you, you can look for reasons not to invest. And I think it's sometimes harder to look for the reasons to invest. But I think a lot of the reasons that people didn't invest were one, at the time it was an unknown guy, Ryan Graves, uh, running the company and two, It was seen as not a very big market. And the way I looked at it was like, listen, I mean, I'm a seed investor. My job is to find those people that people haven't met before or heard of or worked with before, you know, make decisions as to whether I think that person can be someone that can, you know, have a real impact. In Ryan's case, it turned out to be true. I mean, he, he's an amazing guy. And, and, you know, if you look at You know, the, the impact that he's had on Uber and the culture there and, you know, how they, you know, kind of started, you know, going from city to city and…

AI assessment note: “Uh, no. I mean, anybody that says that they did”

Q And when did that kind of lightning strike for you? Was there a particular time when you thought, holy shit, this could be incredibly huge, not just huge?

A There were a couple of things. Uh, one was, you know, early on they received, there was perceived to be a lot of regulatory risk for the company. Um, and I, you know, I think that that's bored out, but I think that the first one of those was, uh, a letter they got from the city of San Francisco that was, you know, as well known, it was published in TechCrunch when it happened and, and that sort of thing saying that they were doing something wrong, right? And the company, instead of, you know, backing down, like I think a lot of companies would when they get a very legal sounding letter, said this isn't right, and this is not good for customers, and this is not what individuals want, right? This is, this is not, this is not a product that, you know, should be shut down because of, you know, a, a single small constituency in the city. Um, and so they, they figured out a way to work with the powers that be to, to, to, Make sure that the product Ubers could continue to run in San Francisco, and that was the beginning of a long line of trying to figure out how to work with these regulatory bodies to make sure that Uber could coexist peacefully with the, with the existing status quo players. The other thing was when they made their initial move into Europe, you know, there was, you know, there was, there was a question as to whether this was a, is this a US-only type of company, or i…

AI assessment note: “There were a couple of things.”

Q And David really wanted to know also how it has changed or maybe altered your view of the seed investing environment and just seed investing itself. Has it altered it at all? Does it make kind of any, uh, you know, once you have such a success like Uber, everything else may seem a little, uh, less successful. How do you, how does that change your perspective?

A Well, you know, I think that first of all, I mean, let me set a little context for you. I mean, my, my ultimate goal is to, you know, take money from my investors and And invest it in companies and return multiples on that one. I haven't done that. Right. And so until that happens, I don't think I don't even call it a success right now. Come on. It's a, it's a, it's a massive company. It's obviously very well known. I think it's prospects for success are obviously a huge, but you know, it's, you know, I, I, you know, I don't look at that and go, you know, kind of, you know, rub my hands together and say, woo, okay, we're done. That's, you know, I did, you know, this is the best thing that's ever happened. Until that happens, I actually, in my mental checkbook, don't mark this off as, you know, the big win that a lot of people think that it is. Um, but the other thing is, is I think that there's a lot of people that get into venture because they think they can make a lot of money doing it. I think that's the wrong reason to get into venture and certainly not the reason I got into venture. And, and there are, there are way easier ways to make a lot of money than going to be a venture capitalist. And, and I do it because every day I get to get up and I get to meet You know, a bunch of new people that are thinking of new ideas and building new companies and doing things that I woul…

AI assessment note: “until that happens, I actually, in my mental checkbook, don't mark this off”

Q taking a step back now and talking about first round, uh, now these, this is the second, second part of the interview, and these are mostly from Satya at Homebrew. So, so he wants to know kind of when you step back now and look at the firm with the incredible growth that you have seen since Uh, what has changed in first round's approach as the firm has grown?

A It's been constant change. It wasn't like there was an aha moment necessarily, but I think that what you have with us, you know, we all come from a kind of a product orientation. We love to build products that, that customers really, really like. And so if you come with a product orientation and you look at venture capital, you, you, you do a couple of things. First, you look at, you figure out who your customer is. And the customer here is, are the, are the founders that you work with. I think a lot of venture capitalists, especially in kind of the, you know, post internet bubble, early 2000, were so worried about being able to raise that next fund that they begin to shift their orientation to be, and think about their customers as their LPs. Now, listen, we think of, you know, our LPs are, you know, our investors are very important to us, obviously, but I think of them as our shareholders. And if I make my customers very happy and have the best product out there, Then my shareholders are going to benefit from that. Absolutely. Right. I fundamentally believe that. And so you take that product orientation and you build, and you build the best product you can for your customers. And that product is venture capital. And if for 3540 years, the venture capital product had been, remained relatively stagnant. You know, it was money and a partner, right? That's what you got. And every…

AI assessment note: “It's been constant change. It wasn't like there was an aha moment necessarily”

Q Well, that, that's a perfect follow on to my last question before the quickfire round, uh, talking about kind of evolution and a changing first round. How does the firm think about managing generational transition?

A Listen, I think that generational transition is one of the things that, you know, tears firms apart. And so it's something that you need to start thinking about long before you're ready to make that, before you're ready to make that transition. Um, and so what it means is, and I think that, you know, right now there's probably, you know, no one that does this better than, than benchmark in this space where they're continually bringing in young people, um, and, and, and growing them, um, from, you know, from, you know, relatively green to experience. And, you know, and so, We're all still, we're still relatively young as a firm and as people, but, but it's, it's something that, you know, we obviously, we, you know, I think we've been thinking about generational change and what it looks like since we started the fund, and I think that, you know, the key is to be very deliberate, and the only way to do it successfully is to make sure that you have a partnership that has tremendously good communication and trust between those partners. Um, and that's something that we have at first round. The group of people that, that are my partners at first round are, are some of the most amazing people on the face of the planet. And when I'm talking with my partners about what I think about what we're doing as a firm and what we could do better and, you know, all that. And, and, you know, and, …

AI assessment note: “we've been thinking about generational change and what it looks like since we started”

Q Well, that, that's a perfect follow on to my last question before the quickfire round, uh, talking about kind of evolution and a changing first round. How does the firm think about managing generational transition?

A Listen, I think that generational transition is one of the things that, you know, tears firms apart. And so it's something that you need to start thinking about long before you're ready to make that, before you're ready to make that transition. Um, and so what it means is, and I think that, you know, right now there's probably, you know, no one that does this better than, than benchmark in this space where they're continually bringing in young people, um, and, and, and growing them, um, from, you know, from, you know, relatively green to experience. And, you know, and so, We're all still, we're still relatively young as a firm and as people, but, but it's, it's something that, you know, we obviously, we, you know, I think we've been thinking about generational change and what it looks like since we started the fund, and I think that, you know, the key is to be very deliberate, and the only way to do it successfully is to make sure that you have a partnership that has tremendously good communication and trust between those partners. Um, and that's something that we have at first round. The group of people that, that are my partners at first round are, are some of the most amazing people on the face of the planet. And when I'm talking with my partners about what I think about what we're doing as a firm and what we could do better and, you know, all that. And, and, you know, and, …

AI assessment note: “we've been thinking about generational change and what it looks like since we started”

Q taking a step back now and talking about first round, uh, now these, this is the second, second part of the interview, and these are mostly from Satya at Homebrew. So, so he wants to know kind of when you step back now and look at the firm with the incredible growth that you have seen since Uh, what has changed in first round's approach as the firm has grown?

A It's been constant change. It wasn't like there was an aha moment necessarily, but I think that what you have with us, you know, we all come from a kind of a product orientation. We love to build products that, that customers really, really like. And so if you come with a product orientation and you look at venture capital, you, you, you do a couple of things. First, you look at, you figure out who your customer is. And the customer here is, are the, are the founders that you work with. I think a lot of venture capitalists, especially in kind of the, you know, post internet bubble, early 2000, were so worried about being able to raise that next fund that they begin to shift their orientation to be, and think about their customers as their LPs. Now, listen, we think of, you know, our LPs are, you know, our investors are very important to us, obviously, but I think of them as our shareholders. And if I make my customers very happy and have the best product out there, Then my shareholders are going to benefit from that. Absolutely. Right. I fundamentally believe that. And so you take that product orientation and you build, and you build the best product you can for your customers. And that product is venture capital. And if for 3540 years, the venture capital product had been, remained relatively stagnant. You know, it was money and a partner, right? That's what you got. And every…

AI assessment note: “It's been constant change. It wasn't like there was an aha moment necessarily”

Q And David really wanted to know also how it has changed or maybe altered your view of the seed investing environment and just seed investing itself. Has it altered it at all? Does it make kind of any, uh, you know, once you have such a success like Uber, everything else may seem a little, uh, less successful. How do you, how does that change your perspective?

A Well, you know, I think that first of all, I mean, let me set a little context for you. I mean, my, my ultimate goal is to, you know, take money from my investors and And invest it in companies and return multiples on that one. I haven't done that. Right. And so until that happens, I don't think I don't even call it a success right now. Come on. It's a, it's a, it's a massive company. It's obviously very well known. I think it's prospects for success are obviously a huge, but you know, it's, you know, I, I, you know, I don't look at that and go, you know, kind of, you know, rub my hands together and say, woo, okay, we're done. That's, you know, I did, you know, this is the best thing that's ever happened. Until that happens, I actually, in my mental checkbook, don't mark this off as, you know, the big win that a lot of people think that it is. Um, but the other thing is, is I think that there's a lot of people that get into venture because they think they can make a lot of money doing it. I think that's the wrong reason to get into venture and certainly not the reason I got into venture. And, and there are, there are way easier ways to make a lot of money than going to be a venture capitalist. And, and I do it because every day I get to get up and I get to meet You know, a bunch of new people that are thinking of new ideas and building new companies and doing things that I woul…

AI assessment note: “until that happens, I actually, in my mental checkbook, don't mark this off”