The Exchanges

Q Now, can you kick us off today with a little background on yourself and how you came to co-founding Hiring Screen?

A Sure. So I, I studied law at Cambridge and then spent the next 11 years doing recruitment consultancy. Um, started off in London for four years and then moved out to Hong Kong. Um, I founded my own recruitment firm four years ago. And actually, the, the idea for Highland Screen came from, um, doing recruitment consultancy, and one particular job that I was working on for a client, um, I was asked to find him an executive assistant, and on that particular job, I ended up staring at an inbox with a 196 CVs, and, you know, I had no idea where to start in, um, in sorting through them. I thought it would be a great idea if there was a way to, um, automatically know which of those CVs I should be looking at first. So I got together with my co-founder, Luke Byrne, and we developed an algorithm that basically helps score, sort, and select the most relevant candidates from that pool.

AI assessment note: “So I got together with my co-founder, Luke Byrne, and we developed an algorithm”

Q Now, can you kick us off today with a little background on yourself and how you came to co-founding Hiring Screen?

A Sure. So I, I studied law at Cambridge and then spent the next 11 years doing recruitment consultancy. Um, started off in London for four years and then moved out to Hong Kong. Um, I founded my own recruitment firm four years ago. And actually, the, the idea for Highland Screen came from, um, doing recruitment consultancy, and one particular job that I was working on for a client, um, I was asked to find him an executive assistant, and on that particular job, I ended up staring at an inbox with a 196 CVs, and, you know, I had no idea where to start in, um, in sorting through them. I thought it would be a great idea if there was a way to, um, automatically know which of those CVs I should be looking at first. So I got together with my co-founder, Luke Byrne, and we developed an algorithm that basically helps score, sort, and select the most relevant candidates from that pool.

AI assessment note: “I studied law at Cambridge and then spent the next 11 years doing recruitment consultancy.”

Q And how can founders determine whether it's right or wrong for them? Should they have a, you know, checklist saying, you know, we want to keep equity, we want this level of, uh, benefits coming? What, what are the signs in the accelerator's right or wrong for you?

A Um, in my opinion, I would have thought that the, um, the idea about how much equity you're willing to give up should come a little bit later on. And obviously, if they're asking a huge amount, and they're not giving you a lot back on face value, you know, that may be a clean cut decision. But what I would say, first of all, is try and make an assessment of what does your startup most need right now? You know, is it that you're needing to be super lean on costs, in which case an accelerator, which provides office space might be great? Is it that you have a product, but you just need to get a proven use case or extra metrics, in which case something like Blueprint, where you can get the opportunity to trial your product and test it, um, might be more beneficial. And then once you've established what you want out of it, and whether that particular accelerator can give it to you or not, that's when I would try and balance that against how much equity they need, if any.

AI assessment note: “try and make an assessment of what does your startup most need right now”

Q Ok, good. Well, I think you'll be the first not to, so, so your favourite book and why?

A Well, anybody who's been listening to the show should know that we did the book giveaway, and, um, I'm going to say The Alliance, um, which was co-authored by Reid Hoffman, uh, Ben Kasnocha, and Chris Yair, I believe. Um, and why? It's because I like books that, um, you know, try to take a different look at something, or look at a particular situation or issue from a different angle. And in terms of the way that they Look at the workforce and the employer-employee relationship. I think it's a very refreshing take on things, and some of the principles that they talk about in that book, like the tour of duty concept of employment, those are some of the principles that we actually have underpinning hiring screens development as a product.

AI assessment note: “I'm going to say The Alliance, um, which was co-authored by Reid Hoffman”

Q And now, as the CEO and co-founder at Hiring Screen, you've come a long way, but a lot of people seem to struggle from idea to creation phase, so what advice would you give to entrepreneurs who are yet to make that leap and, and start their own startup?

A I, I would say, if you've got the idea, try and figure out earlier on how you would go about implementing that, so you start to give yourself some level of hope and comfort that that idea can come to fruition. Um, you know, A lot of people might say, well, you need to figure out, um, you know, the one month, or six month, or 12 year view, and I agree that that's important at some point, but I think you need to start fleshing out pretty early on whether it's something that you're going to be able to execute, and in my case, I had that idea, and I went straight to Luke because he was very good at the execution and project management side, and together we figured that out, uh, and I would say that, you know, if you're not somebody who Um, can come up with both the ideas and feel comfortable with execution. You know, maybe go and talk to somebody or find a co-founder who can give you that, um, you know, to give you that step.

AI assessment note: “try and figure out earlier on how you would go about implementing that”

Q So having had this idea and starting hiring screen, Which is now based in Hong Kong. Why did you decide to move to Hong Kong, and what advice would you give to founders who are debating where to start their startup?

A Um, I, I think for me, um, I'd always had, um, sort of that itch to scratch in terms of working, uh, in a, in a different country, uh, and Asia. I visited there when I was younger, and it seemed pretty exciting. Um, you always hear about, you know, London, Hong Kong, New York as big financial centers, and so I wanted to experience that. And that's what prompted the initial move. And, you know, I'm very happy that I did. And I'm very bullish, um, on Asia in general. There's a, there's a real buzz of activity, um, that goes through from, uh, you know, right through the startup scene, I would say, out here is very exciting. Um, I would say in terms of location, if you're talking about Asia, you probably want to go somewhere where there's a good, um, startup community and support environment. So Hong Kong, Singapore's very good. Japan's also well developed.

AI assessment note: “go somewhere where there's a good, um, startup community and support environment.”

Q And now, as the CEO and co-founder at Hiring Screen, you've come a long way, but a lot of people seem to struggle from idea to creation phase, so what advice would you give to entrepreneurs who are yet to make that leap and, and start their own startup?

A I, I would say, if you've got the idea, try and figure out earlier on how you would go about implementing that, so you start to give yourself some level of hope and comfort that that idea can come to fruition. Um, you know, A lot of people might say, well, you need to figure out, um, you know, the one month, or six month, or 12 year view, and I agree that that's important at some point, but I think you need to start fleshing out pretty early on whether it's something that you're going to be able to execute, and in my case, I had that idea, and I went straight to Luke because he was very good at the execution and project management side, and together we figured that out, uh, and I would say that, you know, if you're not somebody who Um, can come up with both the ideas and feel comfortable with execution. You know, maybe go and talk to somebody or find a co-founder who can give you that, um, you know, to give you that step.

AI assessment note: “try and figure out earlier on how you would go about implementing that”

Q So having had this idea and starting hiring screen, Which is now based in Hong Kong. Why did you decide to move to Hong Kong, and what advice would you give to founders who are debating where to start their startup?

A Um, I, I think for me, um, I'd always had, um, sort of that itch to scratch in terms of working, uh, in a, in a different country, uh, and Asia. I visited there when I was younger, and it seemed pretty exciting. Um, you always hear about, you know, London, Hong Kong, New York as big financial centers, and so I wanted to experience that. And that's what prompted the initial move. And, you know, I'm very happy that I did. And I'm very bullish, um, on Asia in general. There's a, there's a real buzz of activity, um, that goes through from, uh, you know, right through the startup scene, I would say, out here is very exciting. Um, I would say in terms of location, if you're talking about Asia, you probably want to go somewhere where there's a good, um, startup community and support environment. So Hong Kong, Singapore's very good. Japan's also well developed.

AI assessment note: “I'd always had, um, sort of that itch to scratch in terms of working”

Q And you said do your homework on your own company. Do you like to do your homework on the VCs themselves then too?

A Definitely. I think you've got to know who you're talking to, and I think there should be a reason why you've approached a particular VC. Um, and I, I, I myself look at, you know, the level of investments that they've done, so I make sure that they usually invest in the type of round that we're doing. Ideally, they've made investments or shown interest in, uh, in the specific sector that we're in, which would be You know, HR technology or, you know, the wider human resources space. And also, you know, just having industry background that's complementary, um, not necessarily just in terms of companies they've invested in, but their own personal background. Um, you know, that's very helpful. Um, you know, certainly, Luke and I definitely do not know at all about running a business, and we're just trying to go, you know, day to day, doing our best to come up with sensible decisions, and having, uh, investors on board who've got that experience would be Very beneficial.

AI assessment note: “Definitely. I think you've got to know who you're talking to”

Q And you're currently in the Swire accelerator. What are your thoughts on accelerators on the whole then, you know, and what they provide startups? And do you have any suggestions for people contemplating moving into an accelerator and maybe choosing the right ones in the now sea of options?

A Yep. So we're, we're based at the, uh, the blueprint accelerator, which is run by Swire properties based in Hong Kong. Um, that's a fantastic accelerator. It's business to business, um, focused. Um, they don't take any equity in the startups, which is fantastic compared to a lot of other accelerator programs. And the most important thing about Blueprints is they actually give you a good level of access to the Swire network of companies. For anyone who doesn't know, Swire is a big, um, uh, conglomerate, so they have multiple companies in different industry verticals. So the opportunity, obviously, for a product like Hiring Screen, which is focused around recruitment, is huge, and they've sponsored us into various parts of the company and giving us the opportunity to speak to HR and recruitment teams and really advance our product there. In terms of Asia accelerators, I mentioned that Suarez is business to business. There are accelerators like Brink, which is hardware-focused, and I think we're just at the beginning of the Uh, the development of the startup accelerator ecosystem in Asia, it's very exciting, Harry.

AI assessment note: “most important thing about Blueprints is they actually give you a good level of access”

Q And for entrepreneurs looking for verticals to go into, are there any signs that represent a broken or fragmented market with market opportunity? I mean, what should they be looking for?

A Well, I, I would say in terms of, you know, where, where the technology is and whose side it's on, at the moment it seems to be very weighted towards the employer, uh, and I think there's probably a gap there for companies to come in and really help the candidates. Uh, and this would go into the theme of, you know, presenting data back to them as to where they can target their job search, what skills they need, and really help, uh, help them be aspirational, because nowadays most recruitment technologies or recruitment agencies are simply trying to move people laterally, so they'll say, you have this skill set and profile, this matches this job, whereas it doesn't always work like that, and sometimes people actually want to do something different in their career.

AI assessment note: “at the moment it seems to be very weighted towards the employer”

Q And so you obviously saw the fragmentation of the recruitment market. So walk us through this. What do you feel is fragmented about the employment and recruitment industry, and how did you identify this problem?

A In the recruitment industry, especially over the last three to five years, there's been a lot of technological advancement. So Today's job boards and social networks have, you know, probably developed to a point where in terms of sourcing applicants, um, you know, the access to these candidate pools is an all-time high. But on the flip side to that, because you've got, ah, quick apply buttons everywhere, the barrier to application is, I would say, it's an all-time low. So, whereas you've got the increase in, ah, potential applicants, you've got so many to look through that you can't do that in an accurate and consistent manner. If you're doing it manually, which was the problem that I had when I was recruiting, that's deeply inefficient, and then if you work your way down the recruitment process and you look at applicant tracking systems, they're also highly inefficient because their value proposition is feed in as many candidates you want, hundreds or thousands, into this applicant tracking system, and we'll manage them for you, whereas my view would be don't do that. There's a lot of Um, psychometric testing, video interviewing, phone interviewing facilities out there, and they cost a lot of money, so my view would be find the relevant candidates, tell the ones that aren't relevant for the job early on that this might not be for you, so they can get on and find the right job …

AI assessment note: “which was the problem that I had when I was recruiting”

Q And what's been the most challenging thing about the fundraising experiences, and have there been any surprises?

A Um, I think, you know, really trying to convey some of the more complex points about hiring screen and why we're doing what we're doing in the timeframe of a pitch is quite difficult because you do want to tick all the boxes in terms of, you know, why you're raising that amount and going through the financials, justifying your valuation, competitor slides, as I said, but also really trying to tell them The vision for the future and trying to convey that mission statement, because especially when you're talking about the workforce and skill gaps and productivity gaps, some of those conversations, you could take each one of those components, and I could talk half an hour, 45 minutes about why Hiring Screen is addressing those concerns and issues, but you just can't do that. You need to really try and distill it down, and so I, I think one of the challenges That, that I personally had was trying to make sure that I had everything really crisp and succinct so that we had a clear pitch for the investors.

AI assessment note: “convey some of the more complex points about hiring screen and why we're doing”

Q And do you think it is important for a founder then to be able to look at their code that their developers are giving them and approve it and say that's okay?

A I'm not sure my developers would believe that I had any valued input if I looked at their code and said it looked a little bad, but, um, but I, I think it's like, um, No, when you go to a foreign country and you've made an effort to learn the basics of a language, and people know that you're trying to be polite and make an effort, I think my development team, I'd like to think that they know I'm somebody that's made the effort to do background research, has done those courses, and so I'm trying to inform myself about what they're doing, and I'm taking an interest in the different types of technologies, and that's also important because, for example, when, um, you know, when our chief architect, CTO, Interviews people, or is introducing me to people that he would like to bring onto the team. He needs to feel confident that he can put them in front of me, and I'm going to be able to talk with a basic knowledge about what that developer's been doing in his past history. Ultimately, as CEO, I need to be able to attract talent right the way across the team, whether it's UX, or developers, or sales, marketing, whatever it might be. So I feel it's my responsibility to Show that level of effort and commitment around what people are doing in their job.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure my developers would believe that I had any valued input”

Q And so you obviously saw the fragmentation of the recruitment market. So walk us through this. What do you feel is fragmented about the employment and recruitment industry, and how did you identify this problem?

A In the recruitment industry, especially over the last three to five years, there's been a lot of technological advancement. So Today's job boards and social networks have, you know, probably developed to a point where in terms of sourcing applicants, um, you know, the access to these candidate pools is an all-time high. But on the flip side to that, because you've got, ah, quick apply buttons everywhere, the barrier to application is, I would say, it's an all-time low. So, whereas you've got the increase in, ah, potential applicants, you've got so many to look through that you can't do that in an accurate and consistent manner. If you're doing it manually, which was the problem that I had when I was recruiting, that's deeply inefficient, and then if you work your way down the recruitment process and you look at applicant tracking systems, they're also highly inefficient because their value proposition is feed in as many candidates you want, hundreds or thousands, into this applicant tracking system, and we'll manage them for you, whereas my view would be don't do that. There's a lot of Um, psychometric testing, video interviewing, phone interviewing facilities out there, and they cost a lot of money, so my view would be find the relevant candidates, tell the ones that aren't relevant for the job early on that this might not be for you, so they can get on and find the right job …

AI assessment note: “which was the problem that I had when I was recruiting, that's deeply inefficient”

Q And what's been the most challenging thing about the fundraising experiences, and have there been any surprises?

A Um, I think, you know, really trying to convey some of the more complex points about hiring screen and why we're doing what we're doing in the timeframe of a pitch is quite difficult because you do want to tick all the boxes in terms of, you know, why you're raising that amount and going through the financials, justifying your valuation, competitor slides, as I said, but also really trying to tell them The vision for the future and trying to convey that mission statement, because especially when you're talking about the workforce and skill gaps and productivity gaps, some of those conversations, you could take each one of those components, and I could talk half an hour, 45 minutes about why Hiring Screen is addressing those concerns and issues, but you just can't do that. You need to really try and distill it down, and so I, I think one of the challenges That, that I personally had was trying to make sure that I had everything really crisp and succinct so that we had a clear pitch for the investors.

AI assessment note: “trying to convey some of the more complex points... in the timeframe of a pitch”

Q And what would you say are the must-haves, then, for entering a round of funding in terms of documentation? Is it business plans? Is it exec summaries, cap tables?

A I would say all of the above. Um, I mean, it sounds obvious, but making sure you've done your homework on your own company is pretty critical, and I think you never know what an investor is going to, um, is going to pinpoint. Um, you should know what they're going to ask for because, you know, anybody will tell you that they want to look at financials or market size or competitive environment, um, but also maybe trying to really distill down to any A particular unique advantage that you have or, you know, specific gap in the market that you spotted, um, is, I, I think pretty crucial because I think a lot of investors, and certainly this is something that I've realized during the process, they're seeing a lot of opportunities at this early stage, and so I think in terms of trying to put together something that ticks all the basic elements of a pitch, um, but also gives just something that's exciting and new, Um, is, is pretty important.

AI assessment note: “I would say all of the above.”

Q And what would you say are the must-haves, then, for entering a round of funding in terms of documentation? Is it business plans? Is it exec summaries, cap tables?

A I would say all of the above. Um, I mean, it sounds obvious, but making sure you've done your homework on your own company is pretty critical, and I think you never know what an investor is going to, um, is going to pinpoint. Um, you should know what they're going to ask for because, you know, anybody will tell you that they want to look at financials or market size or competitive environment, um, but also maybe trying to really distill down to any A particular unique advantage that you have or, you know, specific gap in the market that you spotted, um, is, I, I think pretty crucial because I think a lot of investors, and certainly this is something that I've realized during the process, they're seeing a lot of opportunities at this early stage, and so I think in terms of trying to put together something that ticks all the basic elements of a pitch, um, but also gives just something that's exciting and new, Um, is, is pretty important.

AI assessment note: “I would say all of the above.”

Q And do you think it is important for a founder then to be able to look at their code that their developers are giving them and approve it and say that's okay?

A I'm not sure my developers would believe that I had any valued input if I looked at their code and said it looked a little bad, but, um, but I, I think it's like, um, No, when you go to a foreign country and you've made an effort to learn the basics of a language, and people know that you're trying to be polite and make an effort, I think my development team, I'd like to think that they know I'm somebody that's made the effort to do background research, has done those courses, and so I'm trying to inform myself about what they're doing, and I'm taking an interest in the different types of technologies, and that's also important because, for example, when, um, you know, when our chief architect, CTO, Interviews people, or is introducing me to people that he would like to bring onto the team. He needs to feel confident that he can put them in front of me, and I'm going to be able to talk with a basic knowledge about what that developer's been doing in his past history. Ultimately, as CEO, I need to be able to attract talent right the way across the team, whether it's UX, or developers, or sales, marketing, whatever it might be. So I feel it's my responsibility to Show that level of effort and commitment around what people are doing in their job.

AI assessment note: “I'm not sure my developers would believe that I had any valued input”

Q And you're currently in the Swire accelerator. What are your thoughts on accelerators on the whole then, you know, and what they provide startups? And do you have any suggestions for people contemplating moving into an accelerator and maybe choosing the right ones in the now sea of options?

A Yep. So we're, we're based at the, uh, the blueprint accelerator, which is run by Swire properties based in Hong Kong. Um, that's a fantastic accelerator. It's business to business, um, focused. Um, they don't take any equity in the startups, which is fantastic compared to a lot of other accelerator programs. And the most important thing about Blueprints is they actually give you a good level of access to the Swire network of companies. For anyone who doesn't know, Swire is a big, um, uh, conglomerate, so they have multiple companies in different industry verticals. So the opportunity, obviously, for a product like Hiring Screen, which is focused around recruitment, is huge, and they've sponsored us into various parts of the company and giving us the opportunity to speak to HR and recruitment teams and really advance our product there. In terms of Asia accelerators, I mentioned that Suarez is business to business. There are accelerators like Brink, which is hardware-focused, and I think we're just at the beginning of the Uh, the development of the startup accelerator ecosystem in Asia, it's very exciting, Harry.

AI assessment note: “they don't take any equity in the startups, which is fantastic”

Q And a lot of people, though, struggle with the, the really very initial stages of actually just building those workflows and mockups. So for you as a non-technical co-founder, what advice would you give to someone in terms of finding a technical co-founder? How did you overcome this obstacle?

A I would say that, you know, obviously you try and use the technologies which make that process in terms of the mock-ups easy, so, you know, whether it's InVision app or something else where you can make these mock-ups quite simply nowadays, that's great. I would also say in terms of trying to keep the process As, as simple as possible and keep the communication with your product team, um, as, as open and, uh, and simple as possible is a good thing. For, for myself, not having a technical background, I mean, I went on to Code Academy and, um, you know, I took the HTML and, um, you know, CSS course, um, just so that I actually knew what, you know, title tags were and how to do basic CSS. So, you know, even though, I couldn't implement, um, certainly not to any great extent, um, you know, I'd hate to try and do a mock-up myself. I can at least know what the, um, you know, the UX guys are doing and the front-end developers are doing when they're designing a mock-up.

AI assessment note: “I went on to Code Academy and, um, you know, I took the HTML”

Q And for entrepreneurs looking for verticals to go into, are there any signs that represent a broken or fragmented market with market opportunity? I mean, what should they be looking for?

A Well, I, I would say in terms of, you know, where, where the technology is and whose side it's on, at the moment it seems to be very weighted towards the employer, uh, and I think there's probably a gap there for companies to come in and really help the candidates. Uh, and this would go into the theme of, you know, presenting data back to them as to where they can target their job search, what skills they need, and really help, uh, help them be aspirational, because nowadays most recruitment technologies or recruitment agencies are simply trying to move people laterally, so they'll say, you have this skill set and profile, this matches this job, whereas it doesn't always work like that, and sometimes people actually want to do something different in their career.

AI assessment note: “at the moment it seems to be very weighted towards the employer”

Q And a lot of people, though, struggle with the, the really very initial stages of actually just building those workflows and mockups. So for you as a non-technical co-founder, what advice would you give to someone in terms of finding a technical co-founder? How did you overcome this obstacle?

A I would say that, you know, obviously you try and use the technologies which make that process in terms of the mock-ups easy, so, you know, whether it's InVision app or something else where you can make these mock-ups quite simply nowadays, that's great. I would also say in terms of trying to keep the process As, as simple as possible and keep the communication with your product team, um, as, as open and, uh, and simple as possible is a good thing. For, for myself, not having a technical background, I mean, I went on to Code Academy and, um, you know, I took the HTML and, um, you know, CSS course, um, just so that I actually knew what, you know, title tags were and how to do basic CSS. So, you know, even though, I couldn't implement, um, certainly not to any great extent, um, you know, I'd hate to try and do a mock-up myself. I can at least know what the, um, you know, the UX guys are doing and the front-end developers are doing when they're designing a mock-up.

AI assessment note: “I went on to Code Academy and, um, you know, I took the HTML”

Q And then talking of starting up, what were the biggest challenges for you in starting up Hiring Screen, and how did you overcome them?

A Well, I think in terms of, um, if I can sort of flip that round, in terms of overcoming them, I'm lucky in the sense that I've got a great co-founder, Luke Byrne, um, who I've known for, I've known him for six years, so five years before Hiring Screen came about. And, um, you know, not only is he You know, very good product guy, and he's also exceptional project management, and I think having, having somebody to bounce ideas off and sense check you and make sure that you're not making, uh, you know, bad decisions is really useful. Um, you know, I think that the same, so it goes, is two heads are better than one, and I think in terms of overcoming everyday challenges for us at Hiring Screen, being able to have an open dialogue with Luke and to bounce ideas around and come to a consensus is very important.

AI assessment note: “if I can sort of flip that round, in terms of overcoming them”

Q And then finally, the next five years for you and Hiring Screen, what's the plan?

A I would like to think that we can just carry on doing our best to execute the product vision, keep building a team that enjoys what we're doing, Uh, I, I talked earlier on about trying to explain about the mission statements. Obviously, when you're building a team, you have more opportunity to try and convey to them why you're doing what you're doing, and I would like to think that everybody who's part of Hiring Screen today and in the future, you know, comes to work really understanding what we're trying to achieve, and, um, if I can convey that and they can enjoy their work, then I think I'm going a long way to building a successful company alongside Luke.

AI assessment note: “carry on doing our best to execute the product vision, keep building a team”