The Exchanges

Q How do you handle founder disagreements when they do crop up? It's a common question I get asked. Is there a kind of resolution method you go for?

A I mean, yes and no. Right. Um, handling founder disagreements, first of all, as a baseline, you have to be respectful. You have to disagree in a constructive fashion and you have to put the company first. So it's much easier to come to a resolution when you're both framing your arguments in terms of here's why I believe X decision would be the best for the company. And it doesn't mean again that, that you agree on what would be best for the company. But at least you're playing within the same space. Secondly, you have to understand how each other operates. For example, there are times when it's very clear to Alex or I that we need to stop discussing and move on to another topic, or in some cases, adjourn the meeting. And by the time we come back, it's actually very common for one of us to say, now that I've slept on it, I think you're right, and let's move forward. But sometimes you need that space to To come to it. And again, I, you know, I think anyone who says there's a magic formula, um, is, is, is probably trying to sell you something, but, um, but there are ways that you can set up your, your communication, your process to most likely be able to, to reach a decision. And again, I think a big part of it is founding a business with someone that you respect, that you trust. So you know that even if you think their idea is batshit crazy, their comments A good place.

AI assessment note: “adjourn the meeting. And by the time we come back, it's actually very common”

Q work at a firm. So I'm really intrigued. Uh, and a question from Adam Quinton, again, You've scaled the team now to over a hundred people, if I'm right. So, so how have you managed to maintain such kind of startup ownership culture with such a scaled team, and was it difficult for you to let go as a co-founder and trust other people as much as you have done?

A You know, I think it was When you're a founder, you have areas that you love and that you are gifted in, and you have other areas where you were just muddling through trying to do the best you can until you could bring in someone to help that part of the business grow. And I actually, I've loved the process of being able to really double down on where I can bring the most value to the muse and the areas where, um, I love interacting in the things only I can do and finding people who are Brilliant at other functional areas and giving them the space and the authority to build those teams. And it doesn't mean not being involved. I still interview actually until we got to a hundred people, Alex and I both interviewed every single person who joined the muse. Now, at least one of us interviews everyone and both of us still interview about 50% of hires. Um, so I'm deeply involved. I spend lots of time with the teams, but I I think to recruit great leaders, it has to be their team. You have to give them the latitude. I sometimes describe it as if we're an armada, and, um, you know, I may be the commander of the fleet, but each of my battleships has a general, and that general needs to be able to run their ship, and yes, my job is to make sure that we have the ships in the right place, that our, you know, fleet of airplanes is providing the right coverage, that we're heading in the righ…

AI assessment note: “giving them the space and the authority to build those teams.”

Q And then finally the next five years for you and the muse, what's on the roadmap?

A I'm really excited. So for the next five years, um, you know, we have laid out our big picture vision, um, Fairly clearly since the early days, and that is to build the most trusted and beloved place for people to navigate their career, and so a few months ago, we launched coaching as part of that vision for people that needed more one-to-one help. We're actively looking at really interesting ways to partner with some of the best career development classes on the internet, and I think you'll see more from us in that aspect, but ultimately, for an individual, it's about continuing to personalize the experience. Because we have fifty million people every year who use the Muse to find a job, get advice, or navigate their career, and they are so different. And so, you know, the gentleman who's been in the Air Force for 28 years and is looking to make a late career change to a civilian job, he needs something completely different from the twenty-five-year-old, um, you know, female engineer who isn't happy at her big banking job and wants to join a startup, and everything in between. We are actively working to personalize the experience, to humanize the experience, and then to use that data in constructive ways to help people get what they're looking for, um, and not use that data in ways that might, um, you know, prioritize the needs of a, of an advertiser over the individual, becau…

AI assessment note: “We are actively working to personalize the experience, to humanize the experience”

Q How do you handle founder disagreements when they do crop up? It's a common question I get asked. Is there a kind of resolution method you go for?

A I mean, yes and no. Right. Um, handling founder disagreements, first of all, as a baseline, you have to be respectful. You have to disagree in a constructive fashion and you have to put the company first. So it's much easier to come to a resolution when you're both framing your arguments in terms of here's why I believe X decision would be the best for the company. And it doesn't mean again that, that you agree on what would be best for the company. But at least you're playing within the same space. Secondly, you have to understand how each other operates. For example, there are times when it's very clear to Alex or I that we need to stop discussing and move on to another topic, or in some cases, adjourn the meeting. And by the time we come back, it's actually very common for one of us to say, now that I've slept on it, I think you're right, and let's move forward. But sometimes you need that space to To come to it. And again, I, you know, I think anyone who says there's a magic formula, um, is, is, is probably trying to sell you something, but, um, but there are ways that you can set up your, your communication, your process to most likely be able to, to reach a decision. And again, I think a big part of it is founding a business with someone that you respect, that you trust. So you know that even if you think their idea is batshit crazy, their comments A good place.

AI assessment note: “we need to stop discussing and move on to another topic, or in some cases, adjourn”

Q work at a firm. So I'm really intrigued. Uh, and a question from Adam Quinton, again, You've scaled the team now to over a hundred people, if I'm right. So, so how have you managed to maintain such kind of startup ownership culture with such a scaled team, and was it difficult for you to let go as a co-founder and trust other people as much as you have done?

A You know, I think it was When you're a founder, you have areas that you love and that you are gifted in, and you have other areas where you were just muddling through trying to do the best you can until you could bring in someone to help that part of the business grow. And I actually, I've loved the process of being able to really double down on where I can bring the most value to the muse and the areas where, um, I love interacting in the things only I can do and finding people who are Brilliant at other functional areas and giving them the space and the authority to build those teams. And it doesn't mean not being involved. I still interview actually until we got to a hundred people, Alex and I both interviewed every single person who joined the muse. Now, at least one of us interviews everyone and both of us still interview about 50% of hires. Um, so I'm deeply involved. I spend lots of time with the teams, but I I think to recruit great leaders, it has to be their team. You have to give them the latitude. I sometimes describe it as if we're an armada, and, um, you know, I may be the commander of the fleet, but each of my battleships has a general, and that general needs to be able to run their ship, and yes, my job is to make sure that we have the ships in the right place, that our, you know, fleet of airplanes is providing the right coverage, that we're heading in the righ…

AI assessment note: “finding people who are Brilliant at other functional areas and giving them the space”

Q Okay. So let's keep this nautical theme going. I'm enjoying that. So we need these generals and we need these crucial ships. So when you look at the team now being over the hundred, what were those crucial, um, ships? Slash hires that you made along the way. Um, what were they that really allowed you to kind of elevate yourself out of the weeds?

A Yeah. Um, so it's been a combination of skills and, uh, and, and culture fit. Uh, we early on laid out six core values that we think every single person who works on the muse needs to abide by. And we, we interview for those, although we don't Talk about them in too much detail publicly, because the last thing we want is someone coming in and, and, you know, gaming their stories to try and hit on all of the core values. But I think that, um, for us, it was important to make sure that we weren't screening for these critical hires just on, you know, oh, would we want to have a beer with this person? Because you can end up with a really undiverse team that way. Uh, we wanted to be looking at, can they do the job and can they do it in a way that really builds the type of organization we want to create at the muse? So Um, our head of sales, uh, Doug Freeman, our VP of sales, absolutely tremendous hire. He joined April Fool's Day, 2014. Uh, it's like a holiday I celebrate every year. Before that, I was managing the sales team, and you know what? I am smart, and I learn quick, and I'm capable, and I can do lots of things, but I have never run a sales team, and I think that it was very challenging for the team, um, because there's a lot about Sales and specifically sales team management that, um, that some people are truly experts in. And we interviewed a lot of people and, you know, t…

AI assessment note: “our head of sales, uh, Doug Freeman, our VP of sales, absolutely tremendous hire.”

Q have to touch on, on the funding. We are a VC show after all. Um, and you've now raised a large series A and B recently. A huge congrats on that. Um, so, so I'm really intrigued. What were the learnings you made along the way on how to successfully deal with investors? Uh, and then what mistakes you made and how you'd counsel others on not to repeat them.

A So, you know, I think that there's tremendous learning that takes place whenever you're raising capital. We had an incredibly challenging seed round, a very, very successful and oversubscribed A, and a B that was more like the A than the C, but obviously the funding environment certainly meant that there wasn't quite as much frenzy or FOMO as our, our 2015 A round. So a couple of the lessons. One was that The biggest or one of, I mean, the biggest difference between our seed on one side and our A and B and the other was numbers, but the second biggest difference was process. So, you know, leaving aside numbers because like, yes, it's great when you've got hockey stick growth, it makes things a lot easier. Um, process is still important. And so one of the key learnings was that we really ran a process. We structured ahead of time before we talked to a single VC, we said, who do we want to speak with? Uh, what are our introductions? Contrary to, um, you know, most people say, well, you've got to get a warm intro. Um, one of the investors that gave us a term sheet is someone that I sent a cold email to, uh, about a month before we started raising because I had seen, uh, something that they'd written on the internet and, uh, thought it was brilliant and so wrote back an answer and we ended up developing a relationship. But, you know, I had the spreadsheet. I said, here's who we lik…

AI assessment note: “one of the key learnings was that we really ran a process.”

Q Okay. So let's keep this nautical theme going. I'm enjoying that. So we need these generals and we need these crucial ships. So when you look at the team now being over the hundred, what were those crucial, um, ships? Slash hires that you made along the way. Um, what were they that really allowed you to kind of elevate yourself out of the weeds?

A Yeah. Um, so it's been a combination of skills and, uh, and, and culture fit. Uh, we early on laid out six core values that we think every single person who works on the muse needs to abide by. And we, we interview for those, although we don't Talk about them in too much detail publicly, because the last thing we want is someone coming in and, and, you know, gaming their stories to try and hit on all of the core values. But I think that, um, for us, it was important to make sure that we weren't screening for these critical hires just on, you know, oh, would we want to have a beer with this person? Because you can end up with a really undiverse team that way. Uh, we wanted to be looking at, can they do the job and can they do it in a way that really builds the type of organization we want to create at the muse? So Um, our head of sales, uh, Doug Freeman, our VP of sales, absolutely tremendous hire. He joined April Fool's Day, 2014. Uh, it's like a holiday I celebrate every year. Before that, I was managing the sales team, and you know what? I am smart, and I learn quick, and I'm capable, and I can do lots of things, but I have never run a sales team, and I think that it was very challenging for the team, um, because there's a lot about Sales and specifically sales team management that, um, that some people are truly experts in. And we interviewed a lot of people and, you know, t…

AI assessment note: “our head of sales, uh, Doug Freeman, our VP of sales, absolutely tremendous hire.”

Q What were your big lessons then from, from running sales? And as you said, a very intricate and, um, detailed organization that, that really does require significant experience to run a sales org. So, so what were the big learnings from that?

A You know, I think that building a business, one of the core skills is understanding where you can figure out the answer, and where you need to find the answer that already exists. To give you a very clear example, there are other areas of business where the best, there, there are best practice, and so it's about identifying somebody who is world class in that area, and again, giving them the space, the authority, the resources, To build out that team. And so, you know, in hiring Doug, A, I think, um, making sure that every hire has really strong values, is aligned with your, with your core values and your vision for the company. That's critical no matter what, but it is 10 X critical for your leaders because they will replicate themselves on a team. And I think, you know, anybody who's ever hired the wrong person and seen them hire in other people who, Who might, um, you know, might also have some of those same challenges, you know, that that's a very real problem in companies. And so I think the bar has to be even higher. Um, but also it's, it's making sure that you have, um, you know, you have someone that has the same aspirations. And I think it's people that both bring an incredible skillset, but there's also just something else. There's a, you know, they're the glue of your exec team and your business. And they're the people who are interviewing and hiring those next peopl…

AI assessment note: “one of the core skills is understanding where you can figure out the answer”

Q What were your big lessons then from, from running sales? And as you said, a very intricate and, um, detailed organization that, that really does require significant experience to run a sales org. So, so what were the big learnings from that?

A You know, I think that building a business, one of the core skills is understanding where you can figure out the answer, and where you need to find the answer that already exists. To give you a very clear example, there are other areas of business where the best, there, there are best practice, and so it's about identifying somebody who is world class in that area, and again, giving them the space, the authority, the resources, To build out that team. And so, you know, in hiring Doug, A, I think, um, making sure that every hire has really strong values, is aligned with your, with your core values and your vision for the company. That's critical no matter what, but it is 10 X critical for your leaders because they will replicate themselves on a team. And I think, you know, anybody who's ever hired the wrong person and seen them hire in other people who, Who might, um, you know, might also have some of those same challenges, you know, that that's a very real problem in companies. And so I think the bar has to be even higher. Um, but also it's, it's making sure that you have, um, you know, you have someone that has the same aspirations. And I think it's people that both bring an incredible skillset, but there's also just something else. There's a, you know, they're the glue of your exec team and your business. And they're the people who are interviewing and hiring those next peopl…

AI assessment note: “identifying somebody who is world class in that area, and again, giving them the space”