The Exchanges

Q Can I ask, in such a short space of time, how do you look to kind of hack the onboarding of the relationship, so to speak, and really build that trust and rapport?

A Yeah, I mean, I think you just have to be, you can't hack it. I think if you're trying to hack it, it's going to come off as, as not genuine, right? So, I don't think there's anything you can do to try to Um, game the system or, or be different. I think you just have to be genuinely authentic and who you are. And so I really like spending face to face time with entrepreneurs. And so if I can, if a company is not based in the Bay area and I can, you know, fly to meet them in New York or LA or, or Colorado or Utah, wherever they are, I want to, I want to spend time with them. I want to try to get them in a setting where it's not necessarily just about work. And so, you know, one of my favorite stories is, you know, I, I invested in buddy media with a CEO named Mike Lazaro, who's amazing. And, um, I spent, Sort of every time I went to New York, I would visit Mike, and I went to, you know, a company barbecue event they had, and I went to, you know, I went to their office and had drinks and got to know Mike, and so it were these short meetings where I got a sense of who he was as a person outside of just his, the professional setting, and that really helps, and it's just like, I think a lot of this is a little bit kind of analogous to dating. I don't think you want to, you know, talk about marriage on the first date. I think a lot of times you want to get to know the person and, you…

AI assessment note: “I really like spending face to face time with entrepreneurs.”

Q And then, let's do advice to a junior starting out in the industry. What would you advise them? Advise me. Help me, Jules.

A I think you're going to be great. The fact that you do this already is pretty amazing. You know, I think what's interesting is a lot of people get intimidated. I mean, I used, I still get intimidated by some of the big names in venture, and a lot of people are, I think, well, how can I ever, you know, beat, I don't know, whoever it is, Peter Fenton, or Scott Sandell, or Vinod Khosla, or Mike Moritz in an investment. I mean, these people are amazing. And I, and, and they are, but I, I think thinking about as a young person, thinking about what are your comparative advantages that those people can't do. So those people are all busy and you know, I'm busy too. And as a 24 year old, um, you may be able to go out at night until 11 o'clock with a CEO and you may be able to, you may know people like actual engineers that are very hireable for that company. Whereas if someone's older, they may not be as plugged into, to great engineers. And so thinking about what you can deliver that other Older people can't. I think it's huge, and then you might, you may actually realize that there are things that, that you can do that put you in a position where someone can take a chance on you, and especially if you're at a good firm with a good brand as well, you know, I think you can be incredibly successful as a young person. You just have to play the game differently.

AI assessment note: “thinking about as a young person, thinking about what are your comparative advantages”

Q Can I ask, in such a short space of time, how do you look to kind of hack the onboarding of the relationship, so to speak, and really build that trust and rapport?

A Yeah, I mean, I think you just have to be, you can't hack it. I think if you're trying to hack it, it's going to come off as, as not genuine, right? So, I don't think there's anything you can do to try to Um, game the system or, or be different. I think you just have to be genuinely authentic and who you are. And so I really like spending face to face time with entrepreneurs. And so if I can, if a company is not based in the Bay area and I can, you know, fly to meet them in New York or LA or, or Colorado or Utah, wherever they are, I want to, I want to spend time with them. I want to try to get them in a setting where it's not necessarily just about work. And so, you know, one of my favorite stories is, you know, I, I invested in buddy media with a CEO named Mike Lazaro, who's amazing. And, um, I spent, Sort of every time I went to New York, I would visit Mike, and I went to, you know, a company barbecue event they had, and I went to, you know, I went to their office and had drinks and got to know Mike, and so it were these short meetings where I got a sense of who he was as a person outside of just his, the professional setting, and that really helps, and it's just like, I think a lot of this is a little bit kind of analogous to dating. I don't think you want to, you know, talk about marriage on the first date. I think a lot of times you want to get to know the person and, you…

AI assessment note: “you can't hack it. I think if you're trying to hack it”

Q And you have the ability to look at this, uh, kind of cohort that we're seeing now with a, with a good amount of perspective and hindsight, because you've seen it obviously in the 14 year period that you've been in the career. So I'm intrigued. How have we seen these requirements change in, in order to get a later stage check?

A Yeah. You know, I think what's, what's most surprising to me and what's really changed in the last couple of years, and it's kind of gone up and down, but we would see companies a few years ago with very, Poor unit economics. Listening, actually, to the interview you did with Fred at Excel, and he talked a lot about Deliveroo and their unit economics. That's what really we want. We want things with really strong unit economics that, at scale, you know, can be quite profitable businesses. I think in 2014 and 15, during kind of the unicorn boom that we were having, you were seeing things that were getting funded that had amazing revenue growth, but fundamentally flawed unit economics. And so, in some sense, you know, you were You were making a dollar of revenue, but it was costing you a dollar 20 to get it. And there wasn't any, there wasn't any way around that. And, but, you know, as a venture investor, you say, hey, this company went from ten million to a hundred million of revenue. I, you know, I have to be in it. I think that was when the market got a little bit too ahead of itself. And so, I really think that where the market kind of ebbs and flows is around just how much in terms of your fundamental unit economics and really the strength of your actual numbers and near-term business metrics do people value and how much is based on promise in the future. And in really hot ma…

AI assessment note: “We want things with really strong unit economics that, at scale... can be quite profitable”

Q Well, I do want to touch on that industry because three, I definitely focus on the later stages. I think we'd both agree. And, and today with IVP, you, You do, too, still, um, have a big hand in the later stages, so I do want to talk about that, and I'd love to hear what are the major trends that you've seen with IVP in the later stage game?

A Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest trend, it was interesting, when I got to both IVP in 2008, and even in three I in 2004, you know, venture historically has been very much a cottage or relationship industry, and so deal flow would often come to the later stage investors from great early stage firms, and early stage firm would fund a series A or series B, and then basically they'd Go to their friends and say, hey, we need to raise a bit more money, and these later stage firms would do those investments. What changed is, you know, with the internet and just information being more readily available on how companies are doing, all of a sudden, as a later stage firm, you could actually figure out what are the best companies to go after. And so, instead of waiting for your friend at an early stage VC firm to give you a call, why not just give a call to the CEO directly and tell them about your firm and why you can be helpful to them. And so, the industry is Become massively more proactive. And to us, that doesn't mean, you know, we don't have a farm of associates cold calling or looking at under any, every rock around the planet, but we are trying to find every week we're talking about what are the five or 10 fastest growing later stage companies that we're incredibly excited about. And then we're thinking about ways to connect directly with the CEO, actually add value to the company…

AI assessment note: “the industry has become massively more proactive.”

Q I'm super intrigued with that as kind of you being the counsel and advisor to them, because we, you know, through your 13 years in the industry, you've seen a changing generations of the industry. I'm intrigued. What are the struggles and challenges then with this aging and changing generations for you as you look to kind of remain intact with the founder community?

A Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think there's two big challenges with kind of getting older in venture. The first is you just get Farther away from the age of the CEOs, at least in the consumer space and what the kind of teenagers are doing in terms of using the products. So, you know, I started in the industry at 24 and, and kind of the early boom of social networking and YouTube. And, you know, I was right there using all the products and I was like, I had a ton of free time. I was the same age as some of these CEOs and founders. You know, I had a meeting a few months ago with a CEO and, you know, I'm 37, which I don't think is super old. But, um, the CEO was 24, and, you know, he's demoing his product, and he goes, you know, people of your generation won't understand this, but let me show you this. And all of a sudden, he goes, I go, your generation? Oh, my God, I'm in a different generation? Um, you know, I think I'm the young guy in venture, and what was most frustrating was he was right. And so, the hardest thing is, how do I tap into still kind of thinking young, or thinking like who's in their twenties, or, you know, or 18, or, you know, and using some of these social networking products, or social products, and Um, really understanding that. And so that's something that I constantly struggle with. And then second, the second thing is that it's interesting. Venture is…

AI assessment note: “two big challenges with kind of getting older in venture. The first is”

Q Well, I do want to touch on that industry because three, I definitely focus on the later stages. I think we'd both agree. And, and today with IVP, you, You do, too, still, um, have a big hand in the later stages, so I do want to talk about that, and I'd love to hear what are the major trends that you've seen with IVP in the later stage game?

A Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest trend, it was interesting, when I got to both IVP in 2008, and even in three I in 2004, you know, venture historically has been very much a cottage or relationship industry, and so deal flow would often come to the later stage investors from great early stage firms, and early stage firm would fund a series A or series B, and then basically they'd Go to their friends and say, hey, we need to raise a bit more money, and these later stage firms would do those investments. What changed is, you know, with the internet and just information being more readily available on how companies are doing, all of a sudden, as a later stage firm, you could actually figure out what are the best companies to go after. And so, instead of waiting for your friend at an early stage VC firm to give you a call, why not just give a call to the CEO directly and tell them about your firm and why you can be helpful to them. And so, the industry is Become massively more proactive. And to us, that doesn't mean, you know, we don't have a farm of associates cold calling or looking at under any, every rock around the planet, but we are trying to find every week we're talking about what are the five or 10 fastest growing later stage companies that we're incredibly excited about. And then we're thinking about ways to connect directly with the CEO, actually add value to the company…

AI assessment note: “the industry is Become massively more proactive.”

Q And you have the ability to look at this, uh, kind of cohort that we're seeing now with a, with a good amount of perspective and hindsight, because you've seen it obviously in the 14 year period that you've been in the career. So I'm intrigued. How have we seen these requirements change in, in order to get a later stage check?

A Yeah. You know, I think what's, what's most surprising to me and what's really changed in the last couple of years, and it's kind of gone up and down, but we would see companies a few years ago with very, Poor unit economics. Listening, actually, to the interview you did with Fred at Excel, and he talked a lot about Deliveroo and their unit economics. That's what really we want. We want things with really strong unit economics that, at scale, you know, can be quite profitable businesses. I think in 2014 and 15, during kind of the unicorn boom that we were having, you were seeing things that were getting funded that had amazing revenue growth, but fundamentally flawed unit economics. And so, in some sense, you know, you were You were making a dollar of revenue, but it was costing you a dollar 20 to get it. And there wasn't any, there wasn't any way around that. And, but, you know, as a venture investor, you say, hey, this company went from ten million to a hundred million of revenue. I, you know, I have to be in it. I think that was when the market got a little bit too ahead of itself. And so, I really think that where the market kind of ebbs and flows is around just how much in terms of your fundamental unit economics and really the strength of your actual numbers and near-term business metrics do people value and how much is based on promise in the future. And in really hot ma…

AI assessment note: “where the market kind of ebbs and flows is around just how much in terms of your fundamental unit economics”

Q Can I ask, to what extent is that the role of the, the later stage board member to always push the boundaries with the CEO to make them change their perspectives on markets, be it from desktop to, to mobile, be it from kind of one go to market strategy to another. To what extent is that the role of also the board member?

A Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I, I think it really, again, it comes back to trust because I've, I've been in board meetings where there's like the angry VC in the room pounding the table about, you know, you have to do mobile or what's our, or just says some ridiculous strategy. And this thing about, you know, what's our chat bot or AI strategy takes the board meeting in a totally wrong direction. And like, I never want to be that person. And if I am, I hope my CEOs tell me. So you can't as a board member go in there and say, you got to do this, you got to do this. But over time you have to build trust where they actually start Asking you the question. Um, they start saying, Hey, what, what are the things I should be thinking about now? Or, you know, or maybe you ask a probing question about how's, how's the team developing and you get them to sort of come to the conclusion that maybe they need to upgrade in a certain position, but it needs to be a two way street. I think it's very, whenever you try to tell a CEO, Hey, you have to do this. The natural reaction is to get defensive and Hey, you don't know my business. You're coming in here once every two or three months. How do you know it better than I do? And the answer is we don't. So they have to trust you. One of the most interesting things about my background, and this is, I grew up In Oregon, in Eugene, Oregon, and my …

AI assessment note: “you can't as a board member go in there and say, you got to do this”

Q Can I ask, to what extent is that the role of the, the later stage board member to always push the boundaries with the CEO to make them change their perspectives on markets, be it from desktop to, to mobile, be it from kind of one go to market strategy to another. To what extent is that the role of also the board member?

A Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I, I think it really, again, it comes back to trust because I've, I've been in board meetings where there's like the angry VC in the room pounding the table about, you know, you have to do mobile or what's our, or just says some ridiculous strategy. And this thing about, you know, what's our chat bot or AI strategy takes the board meeting in a totally wrong direction. And like, I never want to be that person. And if I am, I hope my CEOs tell me. So you can't as a board member go in there and say, you got to do this, you got to do this. But over time you have to build trust where they actually start Asking you the question. Um, they start saying, Hey, what, what are the things I should be thinking about now? Or, you know, or maybe you ask a probing question about how's, how's the team developing and you get them to sort of come to the conclusion that maybe they need to upgrade in a certain position, but it needs to be a two way street. I think it's very, whenever you try to tell a CEO, Hey, you have to do this. The natural reaction is to get defensive and Hey, you don't know my business. You're coming in here once every two or three months. How do you know it better than I do? And the answer is we don't. So they have to trust you. One of the most interesting things about my background, and this is, I grew up In Oregon, in Eugene, Oregon, and my …

AI assessment note: “you can't as a board member go in there and say, you got to do this”