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Dec 18, 2015 · 24m · 20vc

20 VC FF 027: Risk, Incentive and Opportunity in Starting A Company with Daniel van Binsbergen, Founder @ Lexoo

Daniel Van Binsbergen · 17m spoken Harry Stebbings · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The 20 Minute VC, Lexoo CEO Daniel van Binsbergen discusses his transition from corporate law to tech entrepreneurship, detailing how he built and funded a curated legal marketplace while overcoming industry-specific barriers and career risks.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Harry holds 24.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Harry as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 0.8 Harry pushing back 1.0
05100:0010:0020:001:45–6:27 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 The Origin Story of Lexoo Harry asks standard origin story questions but pushes slightly with a personal hypothetical about taking risk with family responsibilities. Daniel explains his methodical savings plan and mindset toward self-investment.6:28–9:08 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Structural Barriers to Innovation in the Legal Sector Daniel educates the host on the structural economics of traditional law firms, detailing how hourly billing penalizes efficiency and partner retirement timelines disincentivize long-term innovation.9:09–13:44 · Harry as informed peer 3/10 Evaluating Lawyers as Startup Founders Harry references contextual background on Lexoo's early non-tech manual workflow. Daniel gently dissents from the notion that legal training helps founders, noting lawyers focus heavily on non-critical risks.13:44–17:21 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Securing Early Investment from Forward Partners Daniel outlines his seed fundraising journey with Forward Partners, breaking down the psychological contrast between genuinely passionate investors and those driven by FOMO.17:21–22:32 · Harry as informed peer 2/10 Post-Investment Experience and Key Founder Mindsets In a quickfire round, Daniel shares insights from The Mom Test and Brian Chesky's learning style. The dynamic is fully collaborative with no pushback or friction.22:32–23:42 · Harry as informed peer 1/10 Future Outlook for Lexoo and Daniel van Binsbergen Daniel describes the accelerated learning curve of a startup founder compared to a legal career and outlines expansion plans for Lexoo in a friendly closing exchange.1:45–6:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Origin Story of Lexoo Harry asks standard origin story questions but pushes slightly with a personal hypothetical about taking risk with family responsibilities. Daniel explains his methodical savings plan and mindset toward self-investment.6:28–9:08 · Guest teaching 5/10 Structural Barriers to Innovation in the Legal Sector Daniel educates the host on the structural economics of traditional law firms, detailing how hourly billing penalizes efficiency and partner retirement timelines disincentivize long-term innovation.9:09–13:44 · Guest teaching 4/10 Evaluating Lawyers as Startup Founders Harry references contextual background on Lexoo's early non-tech manual workflow. Daniel gently dissents from the notion that legal training helps founders, noting lawyers focus heavily on non-critical risks.13:44–17:21 · Guest teaching 4/10 Securing Early Investment from Forward Partners Daniel outlines his seed fundraising journey with Forward Partners, breaking down the psychological contrast between genuinely passionate investors and those driven by FOMO.17:21–22:32 · Guest teaching 3/10 Post-Investment Experience and Key Founder Mindsets In a quickfire round, Daniel shares insights from The Mom Test and Brian Chesky's learning style. The dynamic is fully collaborative with no pushback or friction.22:32–23:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 Future Outlook for Lexoo and Daniel van Binsbergen Daniel describes the accelerated learning curve of a startup founder compared to a legal career and outlines expansion plans for Lexoo in a friendly closing exchange.1:45–6:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Origin Story of Lexoo Harry asks standard origin story questions but pushes slightly with a personal hypothetical about taking risk with family responsibilities. Daniel explains his methodical savings plan and mindset toward self-investment.6:28–9:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Structural Barriers to Innovation in the Legal Sector Daniel educates the host on the structural economics of traditional law firms, detailing how hourly billing penalizes efficiency and partner retirement timelines disincentivize long-term innovation.9:09–13:44 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Evaluating Lawyers as Startup Founders Harry references contextual background on Lexoo's early non-tech manual workflow. Daniel gently dissents from the notion that legal training helps founders, noting lawyers focus heavily on non-critical risks.13:44–17:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Securing Early Investment from Forward Partners Daniel outlines his seed fundraising journey with Forward Partners, breaking down the psychological contrast between genuinely passionate investors and those driven by FOMO.17:21–22:32 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Post-Investment Experience and Key Founder Mindsets In a quickfire round, Daniel shares insights from The Mom Test and Brian Chesky's learning style. The dynamic is fully collaborative with no pushback or friction.22:32–23:42 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Future Outlook for Lexoo and Daniel van Binsbergen Daniel describes the accelerated learning curve of a startup founder compared to a legal career and outlines expansion plans for Lexoo in a friendly closing exchange.1:45–6:27 · Harry pushing back 2/10 The Origin Story of Lexoo Harry asks standard origin story questions but pushes slightly with a personal hypothetical about taking risk with family responsibilities. Daniel explains his methodical savings plan and mindset toward self-investment.6:28–9:08 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Structural Barriers to Innovation in the Legal Sector Daniel educates the host on the structural economics of traditional law firms, detailing how hourly billing penalizes efficiency and partner retirement timelines disincentivize long-term innovation.9:09–13:44 · Harry pushing back 2/10 Evaluating Lawyers as Startup Founders Harry references contextual background on Lexoo's early non-tech manual workflow. Daniel gently dissents from the notion that legal training helps founders, noting lawyers focus heavily on non-critical risks.13:44–17:21 · Harry pushing back 1/10 Securing Early Investment from Forward Partners Daniel outlines his seed fundraising journey with Forward Partners, breaking down the psychological contrast between genuinely passionate investors and those driven by FOMO.17:21–22:32 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Post-Investment Experience and Key Founder Mindsets In a quickfire round, Daniel shares insights from The Mom Test and Brian Chesky's learning style. The dynamic is fully collaborative with no pushback or friction.22:32–23:42 · Harry pushing back 0/10 Future Outlook for Lexoo and Daniel van Binsbergen Daniel describes the accelerated learning curve of a startup founder compared to a legal career and outlines expansion plans for Lexoo in a friendly closing exchange.

speaking balance: gold is Harry, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Harry 59% · guest 41%0:00 · Harry 59% · guest 41%3:00 · Harry 18.2% · guest 81.8%3:00 · Harry 18.2% · guest 81.8%6:00 · Harry 11.9% · guest 88.1%6:00 · Harry 11.9% · guest 88.1%9:00 · Harry 20% · guest 80%9:00 · Harry 20% · guest 80%12:00 · Harry 19.8% · guest 80.2%12:00 · Harry 19.8% · guest 80.2%15:00 · Harry 21.5% · guest 78.5%15:00 · Harry 21.5% · guest 78.5%18:00 · Harry 10.1% · guest 89.9%18:00 · Harry 10.1% · guest 89.9%21:00 · Harry 20.1% · guest 79.9%21:00 · Harry 20.1% · guest 79.9%24:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Harry 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:28 Rejecting the value of legal training for founders

Daniel counters Harry's question about whether being a lawyer is a good stepping stone, explicitly stating 'Yeah, maybe not actually' because lawyers focus heavily on irrelevancies.

 Hardest push from Harry ▶ 5:45 Pressing on family and mortgage hypotheticals

Harry pushes Daniel past his initial answer by asking specifically whether he would still have taken the startup risk if he had children, mortgages, and school fees.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:47 Explaining the disincentive of hourly billing

Daniel breaks down the internal business model of legal practice, explaining that introducing tech efficiency reduces billable hours and thereby decreases firm revenue.

 Harry holds his own ▶ 10:26 Citing specific details about Lexoo's early non-tech MVP

Harry demonstrates episode preparation by referencing Dharmesh's comments and specific knowledge of Lexoo's initial manual setup.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicHarry as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementHarry pushing backWhy
The Origin Story of Lexoo 2312 Harry asks standard origin story questions but pushes slightly with a personal hypothetical about taking risk with family responsibilities. Daniel explains his methodical savings plan and mindset toward self-investment.
Structural Barriers to Innovation in the Legal Sector 2511 Daniel educates the host on the structural economics of traditional law firms, detailing how hourly billing penalizes efficiency and partner retirement timelines disincentivize long-term innovation.
Evaluating Lawyers as Startup Founders 3422 Harry references contextual background on Lexoo's early non-tech manual workflow. Daniel gently dissents from the notion that legal training helps founders, noting lawyers focus heavily on non-critical risks.
Securing Early Investment from Forward Partners 2411 Daniel outlines his seed fundraising journey with Forward Partners, breaking down the psychological contrast between genuinely passionate investors and those driven by FOMO.
Post-Investment Experience and Key Founder Mindsets 2300 In a quickfire round, Daniel shares insights from The Mom Test and Brian Chesky's learning style. The dynamic is fully collaborative with no pushback or friction.
Future Outlook for Lexoo and Daniel van Binsbergen 1200 Daniel describes the accelerated learning curve of a startup founder compared to a legal career and outlines expansion plans for Lexoo in a friendly closing exchange.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van Binsbergen: Boutique lawyers charge half big-firm rates
“Lawyers that I knew that trained at the larger firms and were really good, but who for lifestyle reasons had either started their own practice or joined a smaller boutique firm. And generally speaking, they would charge themselves out for half their previous h…”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 2:27
Insight
Van Binsbergen: Lawyers quote wildly different rates for identical work
“There's really no way of knowing what you should be paying for legal advice. And also that lawyers tend to quote, you know, very different amounts for the same job, all based on a different, you know, perception of the complexities of the matter.”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 2:58
Disclosure
Daniel van Binsbergen saved 100% of salary raises to fund Lexoo
“So what I did is that every year that when I got that raise, I would save a hundred percent of that raise To make sure that I build up a little bit of a war chest.”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 4:17
Insight
Van Binsbergen: Hourly billing directly disincentivizes legal innovation
“Most law firms still bill on a hourly model, whereas a lot of innovation takes place in industries where the person doing the innovation will be able to reap the rewards. So if you introduce a new efficiency in a law firm, which means that you spend less time …”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 6:53
Insight
Van Binsbergen: Senior partners block long-term tech investments in law firms
“Virtually all law firms are run by a partnership, and it's often the most senior partners that have the heaviest voice in that partnership, and they're also closest to retirement, so, you know, a senior partner might vote against a proposal that would mean les…”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 7:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van Binsbergen: Younger lawyers are rejecting traditional firm partnerships
“My generation of lawyers don't necessarily want to become a partner at a large firm. That, that isn't necessarily the highest goal anymore. So, all of a sudden, you're getting a large number of high quality lawyers who Starting their own practice, billing in a…”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 8:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Van Binsbergen: Low-overhead spinouts force elite law firms to innovate
“And I think once that, that trend is continuing clients are waking up as well. You know, they will then compare let's say an Alan Overy lawyer with an ex-Alan Overy lawyer working on a much lower overhead basis. And it, it's that Competitive dynamic that is no…”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 8:49
Insight
Van Binsbergen advises aspiring entrepreneurs against using law as a stepping stone
“So I don't necessarily, I wouldn't advise any, you know, potential entrepreneur who's now in high school to follow the legal route to, as a stepping stone to becoming a lawyer.”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 9:51
Disclosure
Van Binsbergen: Lexoo had only 5 to 10 inquiries when pitching Forward
“I think I had only had between five and 10 clients submit an inquiry through the system.”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 15:05
Disclosure
Lexoo charges participating lawyers a 10% commission on its marketplace
“So the lawyers pay us a 10% commission.”
Daniel Van Binsbergen Dec 18, 2015 ▶ 15:18
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