Jun 1, 2017 · 28m · y-combinator

Scaling Culture | Jason Kilar, former Hulu CEO · Y Combinator

Jason Kilar · 24m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this ScaleUp Offsite presentation, former Hulu CEO Jason Kilar shares practical strategies for defining and scaling corporate culture during periods of rapid growth. Drawing from his executive experience at Disney, Amazon, and Hulu, Kilar highlights the necessity of explicit values, executive role modeling, and institutionalized mechanisms to maintain operational excellence at scale.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →

The partners as informed peer 0.0 Guest teaching 0.3 Guest disagreement 0.7 The partners pushing back 0.0
05100:0010:0020:001:12–5:27 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 Defining Culture: How You Act When No One Is Looking Monologue presentation where Jason Kilar defines culture as how individuals act when no one is looking, contrasting it with traditional textbook definitions. There is no host interaction during this solo presentation segment.5:27–8:08 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 The Three Cultural Pillars of Disney Solo presentation focusing on Disney's three cultural pillars: explicit communication, walking the talk, and establishing scalable mechanisms like Disney University.8:08–14:36 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 Scaling Culture at Amazon and the 'Just Do It' Award Solo presentation outlining Amazon's 14 leadership principles and the 'Just Do It' award mechanism designed to reward bias for action and eliminate bureaucracy.14:36–19:13 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 Hulu's Culture: Acting as Both Magnet and Repellent Solo presentation explaining why strong company culture must act as a repellent against bad fits, highlighting Amazon's principle of rejecting social cohesion in favor of honest debate.19:13–22:19 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 Living Up to Culture Daily and Presentation Takeaways Kilar concludes his monologue with takeaways on preparing for scale, quoting Michael Dell's warning about the invisible brick wall startups face when expanding.22:19–28:22 · The partners as informed peer 0/10 Audience Question and Answer Session Audience Q&A session where founders ask constructive questions about implementing 'disagree and commit', adapting culture from previous employers, and iterating mechanisms. The exchanges are completely collaborative.1:12–5:27 · Guest teaching 0/10 Defining Culture: How You Act When No One Is Looking Monologue presentation where Jason Kilar defines culture as how individuals act when no one is looking, contrasting it with traditional textbook definitions. There is no host interaction during this solo presentation segment.5:27–8:08 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Three Cultural Pillars of Disney Solo presentation focusing on Disney's three cultural pillars: explicit communication, walking the talk, and establishing scalable mechanisms like Disney University.8:08–14:36 · Guest teaching 0/10 Scaling Culture at Amazon and the 'Just Do It' Award Solo presentation outlining Amazon's 14 leadership principles and the 'Just Do It' award mechanism designed to reward bias for action and eliminate bureaucracy.14:36–19:13 · Guest teaching 0/10 Hulu's Culture: Acting as Both Magnet and Repellent Solo presentation explaining why strong company culture must act as a repellent against bad fits, highlighting Amazon's principle of rejecting social cohesion in favor of honest debate.19:13–22:19 · Guest teaching 0/10 Living Up to Culture Daily and Presentation Takeaways Kilar concludes his monologue with takeaways on preparing for scale, quoting Michael Dell's warning about the invisible brick wall startups face when expanding.22:19–28:22 · Guest teaching 2/10 Audience Question and Answer Session Audience Q&A session where founders ask constructive questions about implementing 'disagree and commit', adapting culture from previous employers, and iterating mechanisms. The exchanges are completely collaborative.1:12–5:27 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Defining Culture: How You Act When No One Is Looking Monologue presentation where Jason Kilar defines culture as how individuals act when no one is looking, contrasting it with traditional textbook definitions. There is no host interaction during this solo presentation segment.5:27–8:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Three Cultural Pillars of Disney Solo presentation focusing on Disney's three cultural pillars: explicit communication, walking the talk, and establishing scalable mechanisms like Disney University.8:08–14:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling Culture at Amazon and the 'Just Do It' Award Solo presentation outlining Amazon's 14 leadership principles and the 'Just Do It' award mechanism designed to reward bias for action and eliminate bureaucracy.14:36–19:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Hulu's Culture: Acting as Both Magnet and Repellent Solo presentation explaining why strong company culture must act as a repellent against bad fits, highlighting Amazon's principle of rejecting social cohesion in favor of honest debate.19:13–22:19 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Living Up to Culture Daily and Presentation Takeaways Kilar concludes his monologue with takeaways on preparing for scale, quoting Michael Dell's warning about the invisible brick wall startups face when expanding.22:19–28:22 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Audience Question and Answer Session Audience Q&A session where founders ask constructive questions about implementing 'disagree and commit', adapting culture from previous employers, and iterating mechanisms. The exchanges are completely collaborative.1:12–5:27 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Defining Culture: How You Act When No One Is Looking Monologue presentation where Jason Kilar defines culture as how individuals act when no one is looking, contrasting it with traditional textbook definitions. There is no host interaction during this solo presentation segment.5:27–8:08 · The partners pushing back 0/10 The Three Cultural Pillars of Disney Solo presentation focusing on Disney's three cultural pillars: explicit communication, walking the talk, and establishing scalable mechanisms like Disney University.8:08–14:36 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Scaling Culture at Amazon and the 'Just Do It' Award Solo presentation outlining Amazon's 14 leadership principles and the 'Just Do It' award mechanism designed to reward bias for action and eliminate bureaucracy.14:36–19:13 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Hulu's Culture: Acting as Both Magnet and Repellent Solo presentation explaining why strong company culture must act as a repellent against bad fits, highlighting Amazon's principle of rejecting social cohesion in favor of honest debate.19:13–22:19 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Living Up to Culture Daily and Presentation Takeaways Kilar concludes his monologue with takeaways on preparing for scale, quoting Michael Dell's warning about the invisible brick wall startups face when expanding.22:19–28:22 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Audience Question and Answer Session Audience Q&A session where founders ask constructive questions about implementing 'disagree and commit', adapting culture from previous employers, and iterating mechanisms. The exchanges are completely collaborative.

speaking balance: gold is the partners, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%0:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%3:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%6:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%9:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%12:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%15:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%18:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%21:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%24:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%27:00 · the partners 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 17:25 Pushing back against superficial social cohesion

Kilar points out that an effective culture should actively repel 90% of people and critiques the Silicon Valley tendency to compromise for social cohesion rather than demanding vigorous debate.

Hardest push from the partners ▶ 22:18 Audience question on disagree and commit

An audience member presses on the practical tension between empowering employees and stepping in as a founder to overrule them.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 22:32 Explaining that good leadership rarely requires vetoes

Kilar clarifies that if a leader finds themselves constantly having to step in and reverse team decisions, it indicates a hiring failure rather than a disagreement issue.

The partners hold their own ▶ 26:08 Audience member on testing culture experimentally

An audience member draws an insightful parallel between testing business models in early-stage startups and experimenting with organizational culture.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe partners as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe partners pushing backWhy
Defining Culture: How You Act When No One Is Looking 0010 Monologue presentation where Jason Kilar defines culture as how individuals act when no one is looking, contrasting it with traditional textbook definitions. There is no host interaction during this solo presentation segment.
The Three Cultural Pillars of Disney 0000 Solo presentation focusing on Disney's three cultural pillars: explicit communication, walking the talk, and establishing scalable mechanisms like Disney University.
Scaling Culture at Amazon and the 'Just Do It' Award 0010 Solo presentation outlining Amazon's 14 leadership principles and the 'Just Do It' award mechanism designed to reward bias for action and eliminate bureaucracy.
Hulu's Culture: Acting as Both Magnet and Repellent 0020 Solo presentation explaining why strong company culture must act as a repellent against bad fits, highlighting Amazon's principle of rejecting social cohesion in favor of honest debate.
Living Up to Culture Daily and Presentation Takeaways 0000 Kilar concludes his monologue with takeaways on preparing for scale, quoting Michael Dell's warning about the invisible brick wall startups face when expanding.
Audience Question and Answer Session 0200 Audience Q&A session where founders ask constructive questions about implementing 'disagree and commit', adapting culture from previous employers, and iterating mechanisms. The exchanges are completely collaborative.

Statements from this episode (12)

Insight
Jason Kilar: Company culture is determined by how leaders act when unobserved
“You know, as the founding CEO of Hulu you know, it was very, you know, clear to me that the culture of Hulu really was going to be how I acted a lot when no one was looking because people model that over time and then it perpetuates.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 1:53
Assertion Supported
Sending a comic strip to Michael Eisner landed Kilar a Disney internship
“What finally landed me an internship at Disney was sending a comic strip of myself to Michael Eisner and his direct reports. And so this was the comic strip where Back then there was a movie called Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, and I basically used that as a narra…”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 4:44
Insight
Kilar: Relying on good intentions at scale guarantees organizational failure
“When you're, as Sam and Reed were saying, when you're a team of 30, good intentions are good enough. But when you're a team of a thousand or 10,000 or 300 plus thousand, as the case is with Amazon right now, Good intentions are a recipe for disaster, and certa…”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 7:12
Insight
Kilar: Celebrating the destruction of bureaucracy is essential when scaling
“When you're scaling a company, Bureaucracy, which is bad process, creeps in each and every day, and to be able to have mechanisms that celebrate the destruction of bureaucracy that's just as important as things that celebrate frugality”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 14:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kilar personally interviewed Hulu's first 500 team members
“I think probably for the first 500 team members, I interviewed everybody as well”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 15:53
Insight
Company cultures must repel bad fits as much as they attract talent
“It's very, very important when you think about your cultures to make sure that they're a repellent as much as they are a magnet because then, you know, you've, you actually stand for something and you're actually probably going to be effective so long as you m…”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 16:10
Assertion Supported
Kilar: Three of Jeff Bezos's direct reports have tenures of 19-20 years
“My peers, three of my peers who are there today, they are there 19 years, 19 years, and 20 years in terms of other direct reports of Jeff.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 17:07
Insight
Kilar: 90% of people are not comfortable with Amazon-style culture
“It's something that I bet 90% of humans out on the sidewalk would absolutely not be comfortable doing, and therefore they should never apply and go work at a place like Amazon.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 18:35
Assertion Supported
Kilar: Hulu Grew From Zero to $1B Revenue in First Six Years
“There wasn't probably a week that went by during the first six years of Hulu's life where it obviously started at zero and went to a billion dollars in revenue in the first six years of its life where we were not tested in terms of how we behaved and the decis…”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 19:28
Insight
Kilar: Constantly disagreeing with an employee means they are in the wrong role
“I don't think it should happen a lot, and if it's happening a lot, I would ask if you've got the right person in the role, if there's a certain person that you're constantly disagreeing with that's my experience at least.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 24:14
Disclosure
Kilar: Hulu took more inspiration from Disney than from Amazon
“It's funny, I took more from Disney than I took from Amazon when it came to Hulu.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 24:48
Insight
Kilar: Bad process is bureaucracy, good process is a mechanism
“Bad process is bureaucracy, good process is a mechanism.”
Jason Kilar Jun 1, 2017 ▶ 26:40
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