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Aug 28, 2019 · 35m · y-combinator

Diana Hu on Augmented Reality and Building a Startup in a New Market · Y Combinator

Diana Hu · 26m spoken Craig Cannon · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00
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In this Y Combinator podcast episode, Niantic AR leader and former startup founder Diana Hu discusses the technological drivers, investment cycles, and strategic frameworks for building successful startups in emerging technical paradigms like augmented reality. She also shares personal lessons on resilience from her journey as an immigrant entrepreneur navigating Y Combinator and post-acquisition scaling.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The partners hold 84.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The partners as informed peer 2.8 Guest teaching 4.9 Guest disagreement 0.3 The partners pushing back 0.8
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:18–2:26 · The partners as informed peer 2/10 Multidisciplinary Nature and Evolution of AR Craig introduces the episode and asks an open-ended question about how Diana entered AR. Diana explains the multidisciplinary convergence of computer vision, graphics, distributed systems, and hardware.2:26–7:14 · The partners as informed peer 3/10 First Exposure and Philosophy of AR Craig asks when AR will mature into a primary media format. Diana contextualizes the industry using Carlota Perez's economic model of installation versus deployment technology cycles.7:14–13:55 · The partners as informed peer 3/10 Technological Trends and Drivers Behind AR Craig questions how to identify product-market fit in early ecosystems. Diana gives a comprehensive breakdown of computing history and three technical pacing laws: Moore's Law, Koomey's Law for power efficiency, and Edholm's Law for bandwidth.13:55–16:29 · The partners as informed peer 3/10 Startup Strategy in Emerging Markets Craig asks for founder strategy in nascent categories. Diana explains why building core infrastructure and developer tooling during the installation cycle offers better startup odds than consumer apps.16:29–21:11 · The partners as informed peer 4/10 Demo-Driven Fundraising and Finding Believer Investors Craig asks specifically how Diana navigated investor skepticism and soft rejections. Diana explains the necessity of building provable functional demos like AR Pong to convince independent-thinking seed investors.21:11–26:09 · The partners as informed peer 3/10 Navigating Acquisition and Hyper-Growth at Niantic Craig asks how founders can remain motivated and effective after an early acquisition. Diana describes viewing Niantic as fast-forwarding to a hyper-growth Series B stage and likens corporate integration to cultural immigration.26:09–30:35 · The partners as informed peer 2/10 Immigrant Background and Personal Resilience Craig invites Diana to share her immigrant journey. Diana recounts moving from Chile to the US as a teenager, cramming high school mathematics in one year, taking ESL classes, and accelerating through college.30:35–35:44 · The partners as informed peer 2/10 Immigrant Entrepreneurship and YC Batch Advice Craig asks for parting advice for immigrants and current YC batch founders. Diana emphasizes the American entrepreneurial mindset of positive determinism and urges founders to execute high-leverage, unscalable tasks.0:18–2:26 · Guest teaching 4/10 Multidisciplinary Nature and Evolution of AR Craig introduces the episode and asks an open-ended question about how Diana entered AR. Diana explains the multidisciplinary convergence of computer vision, graphics, distributed systems, and hardware.2:26–7:14 · Guest teaching 6/10 First Exposure and Philosophy of AR Craig asks when AR will mature into a primary media format. Diana contextualizes the industry using Carlota Perez's economic model of installation versus deployment technology cycles.7:14–13:55 · Guest teaching 8/10 Technological Trends and Drivers Behind AR Craig questions how to identify product-market fit in early ecosystems. Diana gives a comprehensive breakdown of computing history and three technical pacing laws: Moore's Law, Koomey's Law for power efficiency, and Edholm's Law for bandwidth.13:55–16:29 · Guest teaching 5/10 Startup Strategy in Emerging Markets Craig asks for founder strategy in nascent categories. Diana explains why building core infrastructure and developer tooling during the installation cycle offers better startup odds than consumer apps.16:29–21:11 · Guest teaching 4/10 Demo-Driven Fundraising and Finding Believer Investors Craig asks specifically how Diana navigated investor skepticism and soft rejections. Diana explains the necessity of building provable functional demos like AR Pong to convince independent-thinking seed investors.21:11–26:09 · Guest teaching 4/10 Navigating Acquisition and Hyper-Growth at Niantic Craig asks how founders can remain motivated and effective after an early acquisition. Diana describes viewing Niantic as fast-forwarding to a hyper-growth Series B stage and likens corporate integration to cultural immigration.26:09–30:35 · Guest teaching 4/10 Immigrant Background and Personal Resilience Craig invites Diana to share her immigrant journey. Diana recounts moving from Chile to the US as a teenager, cramming high school mathematics in one year, taking ESL classes, and accelerating through college.30:35–35:44 · Guest teaching 4/10 Immigrant Entrepreneurship and YC Batch Advice Craig asks for parting advice for immigrants and current YC batch founders. Diana emphasizes the American entrepreneurial mindset of positive determinism and urges founders to execute high-leverage, unscalable tasks.0:18–2:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Multidisciplinary Nature and Evolution of AR Craig introduces the episode and asks an open-ended question about how Diana entered AR. Diana explains the multidisciplinary convergence of computer vision, graphics, distributed systems, and hardware.2:26–7:14 · Guest disagreement 0/10 First Exposure and Philosophy of AR Craig asks when AR will mature into a primary media format. Diana contextualizes the industry using Carlota Perez's economic model of installation versus deployment technology cycles.7:14–13:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Technological Trends and Drivers Behind AR Craig questions how to identify product-market fit in early ecosystems. Diana gives a comprehensive breakdown of computing history and three technical pacing laws: Moore's Law, Koomey's Law for power efficiency, and Edholm's Law for bandwidth.13:55–16:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Startup Strategy in Emerging Markets Craig asks for founder strategy in nascent categories. Diana explains why building core infrastructure and developer tooling during the installation cycle offers better startup odds than consumer apps.16:29–21:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Demo-Driven Fundraising and Finding Believer Investors Craig asks specifically how Diana navigated investor skepticism and soft rejections. Diana explains the necessity of building provable functional demos like AR Pong to convince independent-thinking seed investors.21:11–26:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Navigating Acquisition and Hyper-Growth at Niantic Craig asks how founders can remain motivated and effective after an early acquisition. Diana describes viewing Niantic as fast-forwarding to a hyper-growth Series B stage and likens corporate integration to cultural immigration.26:09–30:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Immigrant Background and Personal Resilience Craig invites Diana to share her immigrant journey. Diana recounts moving from Chile to the US as a teenager, cramming high school mathematics in one year, taking ESL classes, and accelerating through college.30:35–35:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Immigrant Entrepreneurship and YC Batch Advice Craig asks for parting advice for immigrants and current YC batch founders. Diana emphasizes the American entrepreneurial mindset of positive determinism and urges founders to execute high-leverage, unscalable tasks.0:18–2:26 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Multidisciplinary Nature and Evolution of AR Craig introduces the episode and asks an open-ended question about how Diana entered AR. Diana explains the multidisciplinary convergence of computer vision, graphics, distributed systems, and hardware.2:26–7:14 · The partners pushing back 1/10 First Exposure and Philosophy of AR Craig asks when AR will mature into a primary media format. Diana contextualizes the industry using Carlota Perez's economic model of installation versus deployment technology cycles.7:14–13:55 · The partners pushing back 1/10 Technological Trends and Drivers Behind AR Craig questions how to identify product-market fit in early ecosystems. Diana gives a comprehensive breakdown of computing history and three technical pacing laws: Moore's Law, Koomey's Law for power efficiency, and Edholm's Law for bandwidth.13:55–16:29 · The partners pushing back 1/10 Startup Strategy in Emerging Markets Craig asks for founder strategy in nascent categories. Diana explains why building core infrastructure and developer tooling during the installation cycle offers better startup odds than consumer apps.16:29–21:11 · The partners pushing back 2/10 Demo-Driven Fundraising and Finding Believer Investors Craig asks specifically how Diana navigated investor skepticism and soft rejections. Diana explains the necessity of building provable functional demos like AR Pong to convince independent-thinking seed investors.21:11–26:09 · The partners pushing back 1/10 Navigating Acquisition and Hyper-Growth at Niantic Craig asks how founders can remain motivated and effective after an early acquisition. Diana describes viewing Niantic as fast-forwarding to a hyper-growth Series B stage and likens corporate integration to cultural immigration.26:09–30:35 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Immigrant Background and Personal Resilience Craig invites Diana to share her immigrant journey. Diana recounts moving from Chile to the US as a teenager, cramming high school mathematics in one year, taking ESL classes, and accelerating through college.30:35–35:44 · The partners pushing back 0/10 Immigrant Entrepreneurship and YC Batch Advice Craig asks for parting advice for immigrants and current YC batch founders. Diana emphasizes the American entrepreneurial mindset of positive determinism and urges founders to execute high-leverage, unscalable tasks.

speaking balance: gold is the partners, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the partners 87.6% · guest 12.4%0:00 · the partners 87.6% · guest 12.4%3:00 · the partners 91.6% · guest 8.4%3:00 · the partners 91.6% · guest 8.4%6:00 · the partners 86.3% · guest 13.7%6:00 · the partners 86.3% · guest 13.7%9:00 · the partners 99.3% · guest 0.7%9:00 · the partners 99.3% · guest 0.7%12:00 · the partners 74% · guest 26%12:00 · the partners 74% · guest 26%15:00 · the partners 92% · guest 8%15:00 · the partners 92% · guest 8%18:00 · the partners 76.5% · guest 23.5%18:00 · the partners 76.5% · guest 23.5%21:00 · the partners 66.9% · guest 33.1%21:00 · the partners 66.9% · guest 33.1%24:00 · the partners 79.2% · guest 20.8%24:00 · the partners 79.2% · guest 20.8%27:00 · the partners 99.8% · guest 0.2%27:00 · the partners 99.8% · guest 0.2%30:00 · the partners 81% · guest 19%30:00 · the partners 81% · guest 19%33:00 · the partners 82.8% · guest 17.2%33:00 · the partners 82.8% · guest 17.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 20:20 Critique of investor herd behavior

Diana criticizes standard investor psychology, pointing out how most investors only follow the crowd rather than thinking independently about nascent tech.

 Hardest push from the partners ▶ 20:01 Host presses on investor rejections

Craig refuses to accept Diana's general answer and explicitly pushes her to explain how she dealt with investors who gave her polite rejections.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:51 Koomey's Law and mobile computing efficiency

Diana introduces Koomey's Law to explain power scaling, surprising Craig with benchmark facts showing the iPhone 7 outpacing MacBook Airs at lower wattage.

 The partners hold their own ▶ 7:15 Push on product-market fit validation

Craig questions the validity of relying on traditional web software stack analogies when evaluating early-stage AR product-market fit.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe partners as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe partners pushing backWhy
Multidisciplinary Nature and Evolution of AR 2400 Craig introduces the episode and asks an open-ended question about how Diana entered AR. Diana explains the multidisciplinary convergence of computer vision, graphics, distributed systems, and hardware.
First Exposure and Philosophy of AR 3601 Craig asks when AR will mature into a primary media format. Diana contextualizes the industry using Carlota Perez's economic model of installation versus deployment technology cycles.
Technological Trends and Drivers Behind AR 3811 Craig questions how to identify product-market fit in early ecosystems. Diana gives a comprehensive breakdown of computing history and three technical pacing laws: Moore's Law, Koomey's Law for power efficiency, and Edholm's Law for bandwidth.
Startup Strategy in Emerging Markets 3501 Craig asks for founder strategy in nascent categories. Diana explains why building core infrastructure and developer tooling during the installation cycle offers better startup odds than consumer apps.
Demo-Driven Fundraising and Finding Believer Investors 4412 Craig asks specifically how Diana navigated investor skepticism and soft rejections. Diana explains the necessity of building provable functional demos like AR Pong to convince independent-thinking seed investors.
Navigating Acquisition and Hyper-Growth at Niantic 3401 Craig asks how founders can remain motivated and effective after an early acquisition. Diana describes viewing Niantic as fast-forwarding to a hyper-growth Series B stage and likens corporate integration to cultural immigration.
Immigrant Background and Personal Resilience 2400 Craig invites Diana to share her immigrant journey. Diana recounts moving from Chile to the US as a teenager, cramming high school mathematics in one year, taking ESL classes, and accelerating through college.
Immigrant Entrepreneurship and YC Batch Advice 2400 Craig asks for parting advice for immigrants and current YC batch founders. Diana emphasizes the American entrepreneurial mindset of positive determinism and urges founders to execute high-leverage, unscalable tasks.

Statements from this episode (10)

Prediction Not checkable as stated
Diana Hu: Mixed Reality Is the Next Platform Shift After Mobile
“I really do think it's the next technology evolution. So we went from desktop, mobile, and next one in terms of representing information in a very rich way. It's going to be the space of Mixed reality with AR, VR, and beyond.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 1:27
Insight
Hu: AR is about deepening engagement with reality, not escaping it
“The thing that I really enjoyed about AR is about being engaged in reality instead of escaping it, where imagination to show or tell a story is really used to engage even more so, more deeply, with more layers of information represented, rather than really esc…”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 2:47
Insight
Diana Hu: AR is in its installation phase building foundational infrastructure
“So AR is kind of in that phase of really building the installation phase of solving all the hard problems so that you get to a very expressive world in the future that I imagine where AR programming in AR could be just as simple as spinning up a website.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 5:24
Insight
Hu: Startup Timing Is Beyond Founder Control and Acts as Critical Multiplier
“You could have a great idea, you could have a great team, and also great investors, but sometimes the timing is just something you don't control, and you could have all those other things be amazing, but the timing is so hard, and that's what gives you sometim…”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 9:04
Assertion Partly supported
Hu: iPhone 7 Beats Any MacBook Air on Benchmarks at Fraction of Power
“The iPhone seven beats an all benchmark for CPU and power and, sorry, for CPU loads or GPU loads, where you compute something, as much as any MacBook Air that has been launched at a fraction of the power.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 11:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hu: Pokémon GO is one of the few significantly profitable AR games
“I mean, the one that we see right now is the Pokemon Go and Antec. One of the few, maybe only AR games that is significantly profitable.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 15:32
Insight
Hu: AR core technology startups currently have better odds than app companies
“It is personally thinking, betting more on the installation phase kind of style of companies, which have to do more with our core technology that gets built out. Because a lot of those, there's tons to do. There's so many problems to solve, ah, before any of t…”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 15:52
Insight
Hu: Emerging tech startups must prove technical feasibility before customer metrics
“That was one of the big things, is like really driving the technology to have provable points with emerging tech. You kind of have to show that it's doable and where it's going to give a sense. Instead of, so it was actually building it at like a minimum. A d…”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 18:40
Assertion Contradicted
Hu: Niantic's employee headcount grew at least 5x year-over-year
“I mean, we, when we joined the company, I mean, from last year to this year, it's like at least five X. It's crazy.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 23:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Diana Hu: High school education in Chile delays algebra until senior year
“Because I had to catch up with everything because the education in Chile is not great. Just for comparison, you learn, kind of, algebra, like, in your senior year.”
Diana Hu Aug 28, 2019 ▶ 28:45
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