The Exchanges

Q What, what has stayed with you? That book is a little old now. What has stayed relevant from then to today?

A I think the main point of Sapiens, which is as relevant today as ever, is that, ah, history is shaped by the human imagination, by fiction, and not just by truth, that humans control the world because we know how to cooperate better than any other animal on the planet, and cooperation relies on storytelling. That so much of the world is run on fiction, is fueled by fiction. It's most obvious in the case of religion, but even if you look at something like the economy, um, corporations, money, all of these things are stories that we invented. They did, they, they don't have an objective existence outside our imagination. I think this was the most important message of, of Sapiens. Trying to understand history as the product of the human imagination and of human fictions. And, um, it's even more true today, I would say, than it was 1015 years ago when I, when I wrote Sapiens.

AI assessment note: “the main point of Sapiens, which is as relevant today as ever, is that”

Q Isn't the book respected in the manner that it is because of the finality of the book and the fact that it is not dynamic? And when I read the book or I read an interpretation of the book, and you will, does, we read the same thing? If the book were to change...

A No, because people constantly reinterpret it. You look at Judaism or Christianity of today, Christianity of today, completely different from what they were a thousand years ago or 2000 years ago. Because as, as, as the world changes, as human relations change, people reinterpret the book, sometimes in extreme ways. You know, you read Jesus talking with people about compassion and love. If somebody slaps you, give them your, your other cheek. How did they interpret it to build the inquisition, to burn people alive, just because they didn't believe in this, in the exact same way that I believe, about the religion of love? They didn't just burn Jews and atheists, they burned other Christians. And how is it possible that, yes, you and I, we both believe in the religion of love and compassion, but because it's a little bit different, your interpretation than mine, then I will burn you, and I can find a way to base what I do on what Jesus said.

AI assessment note: “No, because people constantly reinterpret it.”

Q What do you think, Yuval, of what is happening in the world today? Geopolitically.

A Terrible. I mean, we are going back to kindergarten. To kind of the first, most basic lessons of politics and of human behavior. You now see the rise or the re-emergence of this view that the only thing that exists, the only thing that really matters in the world is power, is force, and especially military force. You hear many leaders and many ordinary people now say this. That everything else is just facade, is just veneer. It never really existed. The only thing that really happens in the world is power, and all human relations are power relations, are power struggles, And if anybody tells you otherwise, this is just a trick, they are, they are using to gain power over you.

AI assessment note: “Terrible. I mean, we are going back to kindergarten.”

Q Because if I'm not thinking of something actively, I'm not suffering by virtue of having that thought in my mind. If there is pain in the world, say for example, People are dying in Iran today. My ignorance of people dying in Iran will make me suffer lesser, no?

A From that particular thing. But if then you get into the habit of ignoring inconvenient things, this is, if you just ignore the suffering in Iran, ok, nobody can care about everything that happens in the world. We are just, you know, we are just frail human beings. We can't carry the whole world on our shoulders. But if you get into the habit pattern of ignoring things that are inconvenient, Then you will bring this habit pattern into everything in your life, into your family relationships, into your professional work, into your relationship with yourself. And again, this will cause you to be ignorant of the ways that you hurt others and the ways that you hurt yourself, and then you can't do anything about it. We can't fix something that we are busy ignoring.

AI assessment note: “From that particular thing. But if then you get into the habit of ignoring”

Q Say if I understand suffering, I will be liberated of suffering?

A Ultimately, yes. Because again, all suffering comes from ignorance. If, if we really understand what suffering is, and where it comes from, then, ah, we can be liberated from it, not just ourselves, but also help other people do the same. And of course, it's extremely difficult. Um, but if you ask him, what is the purpose? Well, you know, People want money. Why do they want money in order not to suffer? People want power. Why do they want power in order, they think, oh, if I had all the power in the world, if I had billions of dollars, then I can, I can prevent myself from being sick. I can prevent myself from being sad. I can prevent, and it's, it doesn't work. People have been doing it, you know, for thousands of years. You can ask the previous generations of Dictators, and emperors, and kings, and billionaires. This, this path doesn't work.

AI assessment note: “Ultimately, yes. Because again, all suffering comes from ignorance.”

Q If I were, you were a 25 year old boy in India, and I want to succeed in the world of capitalism, what would you, what would you suggest I optimize for at this point of time?

A First of all, ask my husband, because he's the kind of businessman in the family. I know how to write books and give lectures. I'm not good in business, so don't ask me for business advice. But my gut reaction is nobody has any idea. If somebody tells you that they know how the job market would look like in five years, or how the financial system would look like in five years, they don't, nobody knows. So my best advice is spread yourself wide. Don't kind of train for something very narrow. If you're trying to, you know, you, you build your skills as a young person, don't focus on a very narrow skill like coding, because maybe in five years they don't need coders because AIs code better than us. So have a wide set of skills. The basic set everybody talks about is you need some, you need brain, you need heart, you need hands. You need some intellectual skills, but you also need social and emotional skills, and you also need motor skills, body skills. The body is important. So spread your time between developing your intellectual and social and bodily skills. I would also add spiritual skills. That also develop your, your spirit, your mind.

AI assessment note: “So my best advice is spread yourself wide. Don't kind of train for something very narrow.”