Jan 28, 2021 · 41m · we-live-to-build
The Patent Pending Secret That Adds $1M to Your Startup Valuation
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of the 'We Live to Build' podcast, host Sean Weisbrot interviews patent agent Dr. Devorah Grazer on how early-stage startups can strategically leverage intellectual property, navigate USPTO filing procedures, boost enterprise valuation, and adapt to emerging technologies like AI.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Sean holds 16.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Sean as informed peer 2.1 Guest teaching 6.1 Guest disagreement 0.3 Sean pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Sean, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 35:37 Grazer grounds AI sentience speculation in human legal precedent
Dr. Grazer gently deflects Sean's philosophical question about AI sentience by steering the conversation back to existing case law requiring human authorship.
Hardest push from Sean ▶ 36:29 Sean challenges human-exclusive intellectual property rightsSean humorously pushes back against the legal doctrine excluding non-human creators by calling human-only copyright laws speciesist.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 20:42 Grazer highlights the critical US vs international publication ruleDr. Grazer provides crucial legal distinction showing how public marketing triggers an immediate foreign patent bar while US law grants a one-year grace window.
Sean holds their own ▶ 27:51 Sean contextualizes patent systems against Industry 4.0 evolutionSean synthesizes technological history from the Industrial Revolution through modern AI to question how bureaucratic state institutions can keep pace.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Sean as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Sean pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| We Live to Build Show Bumper and Mission Statement | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Sean introduces the podcast and asks Dr. Grazer about her background and the outcome of the Human Genome Project patent battles. Dr. Grazer explains how courts determined pure genetic material is unpatentable, educating Sean on biological IP law. | |
| Defining Patents: Legal Monopolies, History, and Disclosure Requirements | 1 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks foundational questions regarding what patents are and what types exist. Dr. Grazer delivers an informative breakdown of legal monopolies, historical guild secrecy, and utility versus design patents. | |
| The Territorial Nature of Global Patents | 1 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Sean inquires why there is no single international patent office and what the US filing workflow entails. Dr. Grazer walks through the territorial nature of patent treaties, patentability searches, claim drafting, and USPTO examiner negotiations. | |
| DIY Filing vs. Professional Patent Agents: Costs, Risks, and Timelines | 2 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks about the cost and timeline differences between self-filing and hiring a registered agent or attorney. Dr. Grazer highlights the precision of legal language, provisional applications, and the major financial and validity risks of DIY filing mistakes. | |
| USPTO Examination Backlogs and Claim Strategy | 2 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks about examination wait times and the pros and cons of patenting for startups. Dr. Grazer explains USPTO backlogs, uses a property fence analogy for claim scope, and notes that a pending patent application typically adds one million dollars to a startup valuation. | |
| Strategic Business Applications of Patents and Channel Sales Defense | 2 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Sean prompts Dr. Grazer to explain commercial drawbacks and optimal filing timelines. Dr. Grazer clarifies that US law offers a one-year post-publication grace period, whereas international jurisdictions require absolute novelty prior to public disclosure. | |
| Understanding Patent Trolls, Non-Practicing Entities, and Injunction Limits | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks Dr. Grazer to define patent trolls and asks what key topics founders overlook. Dr. Grazer breaks down non-practicing entities and preliminary injunction legal standards, emphasizing why early proactive IP planning is critical. | |
| KISS Platform and Agile Competitive Intelligence with iSearch.ai | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks about the unique selling proposition of Dr. Grazer's software tool iSearch.ai and KISS Platform. Dr. Grazer describes how the platform democratizes agile competitive intelligence and patent analysis for early-stage innovators. | |
| Future of Intellectual Property: Patent Pools and FRAND Licensing | 3 | 7 | 0 | 0 | Sean connects historical government origins with rapid modern technological shifts under Industry 4.0. Dr. Grazer responds by illustrating how modern patent pools and telecommunications FRAND licensing prevent market monopolization. | |
| Open Source, Defensive Patent Pledges, and Industry Non-Aggression | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Sean asks if any industry has collectively boycotted patents. Dr. Grazer explains that while open-source licensing and corporate pledges like Tesla and Twitter exist, complete industry-wide non-aggression pacts remain largely non-existent. | |
| Artificial Intelligence in Patent Law: Authorship, Inventorship, and Ethics | 3 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Sean inquires whether AI must be deemed sentient to own patents, to which Dr. Grazer cites legal precedent from the monkey selfie case restricting inventorship to humans. Sean playfully objects to human-exclusive copyright frameworks. | |
| The Fundamentals of Patent Licensing and Business Agreements | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Sean asks about the mechanics of patent licensing and recent business lessons. Dr. Grazer clarifies that licensing agreements are commercial contracts governed by overarching business goals, sharing how COVID forced agile operational pivots. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Grazer: Several Craig Venter genome patents were ultimately ruled invalid
“Indeed a number of the patents that Craig Venter got were finally held not to be valid”
US law forbids patenting pure genetic material without human manipulation
“So ultimately in the U S it was held that these genes could not be patented. That pure genetic material was not itself Patentable. Only if it was manipulated by humans, for example, for use in making special proteins, could it actually be patentable?”
Grazer: Patents are the only legal monopoly outside regulated utilities
“Patents are the only legally permitted monopoly right outside of, say, highly regulated utilities.”
Grazer: Specialized Banks Issue Tech Loans Backed by Patents
“There are even special banks set up that do nothing but give loans to high tech companies on the basis of their patents.”
Anyone can file US, European, or Chinese patents without local ties
“Innovators all over the world can get a patent in the US. You don't have to be a US citizen. You don't have to have a US company. You don't have to have any US ties. Similarly, anyone who, even if they don't live in Europe or have a European tie, can get a pat…”
Grazer recommends 7 to 10 drawings for software and hardware patents
“For example, for software hardware drawings, I recommend that the innovator would have at least seven to 10 drawings. It's a good rule of thumb to make sure you really explain your idea.”
Grazer: Inventors do not need a working prototype to secure a patent
“You don't actually need to have ever built your idea before you get a granted patent. You can actually just have a really good design, and it has happened that there are innovators who have come up with great ideas, but who haven't managed to make a commercial…”
Drafting an initial patent with an agent takes six to eight weeks
“Doing it with a patent attorney or agent, typically you're looking at six weeks to two months. Could be a bit longer if you realize in the middle that you need to rework the idea.”
Grazer: Initial Patent Applications at Top Firms Can Cost Up to $20,000
“If you go to a fancy firm, you can spend up to 20,000 dollars for the initial application, depending on how much extra work you do with them.”
Grazer: USPTO first responses take 1.5 to 4 years
“Typically now I'm seeing it takes one and a half to two years, or even three or four years before you get the first reaction from the examiner.”
Grazer: Filing a patent application typically adds $1M to startup valuation
“Typically filing for a patent application, even before it's granted as an, you know, before it becomes an issue, patent will add a million dollars to the valuation of a startup.”
Grazer: Facebook had to buy patents before its IPO at bankers' insistence
“Facebook actually had to buy more patents before its IPO, because the investment bankers handling the IPO said, you don't have enough patents. This will make it hard for us to do the IPO because patent pending represents potential.”
Grazer: NDAs are hard to defend in court compared to patents
“I mean, NDAs, non-disclosure agreements are great, but they're very hard to defend in court. Whereas a patent is an absolute right, and it can be super helpful, especially when dealing with a bigger competitor.”
US Patent Law Allows a One-Year Grace Period Post-Publication
“So in the U S you're allowed to file for a patent within one year of publishing your idea.”
International Patent Filings Require Filing Before Any Public Disclosure
“Outside the U S You are only allowed to file for a patent if you do so before you publish.”
Grazer: US Courts Deny Preliminary Injunctions to Non-Practicing Patent Entities
“In the U S the patent trolls are the knows knows the MPEs and non-practicing entities. Their power has been reduced somewhat because now in order to get a preliminary injunction, so that is when, let's say I accuse you, Sean, of patent infringement, not to go …”
Grazer: Jack Dorsey founded a blockchain patent pool to curb monopolies
“So for example, Jack Dorsey, CEO of Twitter, who's also CEO of Square, has recently founded a new patent pool in blockchain, and he's encouraging others to put blockchain patents in, in order to keep large companies from monopolizing the space.”
Grazer: More patent pools and FRAND agreements will emerge by 2031
“So in my opinion, in the next 10 years, we'll see more patent pools, more
Patent agreements come up that will allow for such fair and reasonable licensing agreements.”
Grazer: Companies like Twitter and Tesla pledged purely defensive patent enforcement
“Some companies have decided on their own that they will only enforce their patents if someone attacks them first. So Twitter has pledged this Elon Musk in a famous blog post with the title, all our patents are belong to you playing off of the famous meme, all …”