Jul 1, 2025 · 20m · tbpn
Apple Considers New AI partnership
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The podcast hosts analyze reports that Apple is exploring partnerships with Anthropic and OpenAI to revamp Siri, examining the strategic shift toward third-party model licensing, internal talent retention challenges, and the organizational hurdles Apple faces in the generative AI race.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 78.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Jordy directly challenges Coogan's acqui-hire premise by asking whether Mira Murati would ever accept an acquisition payout that results in lower annual comp than average AI researchers.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 10:35 Coogan counters with Beats acquisition precedentCoogan rejects Jordy's compensation constraint argument by pointing out that acquisition earnouts historically allowed executives at Beats to earn more than the Apple CEO.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:52 Historical acquisition multiples breakdownJordy walks through specific historical transaction figures for Beats and Intel's modem division to prove Apple has virtually no precedent of doing massive pre-revenue talent acqui-hires.
The host holds their own ▶ 0:52 Hardware architecture and inference analysisCoogan demonstrates deep domain knowledge by detailing how Apple's TSMC relationship and data center infrastructure differ fundamentally from Meta's large-scale recommendation and inference clusters.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Apple Explores Anthropic and OpenAI Partnerships for Siri | 6 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Coogan breaks down Apple's private cloud infrastructure limitations and explains hardware constraints regarding large model inference compared to Meta's data centers. Jordy chimes in briefly and agreeably about Nvidia chips. The tone is highly collaborative and analytical. | |
| Comparing Siri, Gemini on Android, and ChatGPT User Experience | 5 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Coogan details the user experience difference between voice dictation in ChatGPT versus Gemini on iOS. Jordy playfully points out that Apple rarely works with early pre-seed startups and emphasizes compensation disparity challenges for top researchers. | |
| Startup M&A Deliberations and the Fast-Paced Model Race | 5 | 3 | 3 | 2 | Coogan speculates on Apple or Meta acquiring Thinking Machines or SSI, while Jordy pushes back on the plausibility of startup founders accepting lower corporate compensation than top AI researchers. Coogan counters by citing the structure of the Beats acquisition earnout. | |
| Historical Apple Acquisitions and Third-Party AI Precedents | 3 | 6 | 2 | 1 | Jordy educates the discussion by pulling revenue multiples for Apple's historical acquisitions of Beats, Intel's modem business, and Shazam to illustrate Apple's aversion to massive talent acqui-hires. Coogan reacts to the revenue multiple data in real time. | |
| Foundation Model Team Morale and the Apple AI Identity | 5 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Both hosts riff collaboratively on how Apple could brand its in-house foundation models and maintain its historical identity of delightful product design. Coogan connects this to Steve Jobs' philosophy of empowering creativity through tools like GarageBand. | |
| Sponsor Break: Vanta Trust Management and Compliance | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | After an ad transition for Vanta, the hosts discuss Bloomberg reports on recent Apple researcher departures and retention battles around the MLX team. Jordy highlights Meta's massive 10 to 40 million dollar annual compensation packages. |