Jan 22, 2026 · 30m · tbpn

Kling AI reaches 12M MAU, China's aging tech worker crisis, drama at ThinkingMachine | Diet TBPN

John Coogan · 19m spoken Jordi Hays · 4m spoken Jensen Huang · 21s spoken
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John Coogan and Jordi Hays analyze the rapid rise and technological capabilities of Kuaishou's Kling AI alongside China's tech worker demographic crisis, executive turmoil at Thinking Machines Lab, and macroeconomic AI debates from Davos.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 84.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

The hosts as informed peer 7.3 Guest teaching 0.4 Guest disagreement 0.6 The hosts pushing back 0.9
05100:0010:0020:0030:000:03–3:26 · The hosts as informed peer 8/10 Kling AI's Rapid Growth and Kuaishou's Early History John Coogan delivers an extensive breakdown of Kuaishou's history, tracking its evolution from a 2011 GIF app into a major video platform. He details its DAU milestones and massive oversubscribed IPO without external contest.3:26–8:12 · The hosts as informed peer 8/10 Kuaishou's Public Market Volatility and Kling AI Capabilities Coogan walks through Kuaishou's USD financials, 10-cent-per-second pricing structure, and comparative strengths of Kling against competitors like Sora and VO3. He analyzes compute supply constraints and Meta's potential video model pipeline.8:12–12:28 · The hosts as informed peer 7/10 China's Tech Layoffs and the 'Curse of 35' The hosts discuss the 'Curse of 35' age discrimination in China's tech industry from reporting and contrast the multi-year headcount contraction in Chinese tech against continued expansion across US Mag 7 companies.12:28–19:33 · The hosts as informed peer 6/10 Internal Turmoil and Founder Exits at Thinking Machines Lab Coogan and Hays break down the reporting surrounding the executive fallout between Mira Murati and Barrett Zoff at Thinking Machines Lab, analyzing the talent war dynamics between startups and OpenAI.19:33–26:12 · The hosts as informed peer 7/10 Davos AI Perspectives, Talent Automation, and CapEx Hype A Davos panelist argues that AI leaders promote extreme hype primarily as a sales mechanism to raise hundreds of billions in CapEx. John pushes back immediately, pointing out that Google DeepMind is funded via internal cash flow rather than venture fundraising.26:12–28:26 · The hosts as informed peer 8/10 Jensen Huang's IPO Regret and OpenAI's 'Sweet Pea' Hardware After reacting to Jensen Huang's IPO stock sale clip, Coogan assesses OpenAI's ambitious 50M unit projection for 'Sweet Pea' hardware by referencing historical year-two shipment figures for the iPhone, Echo, Xbox, PS5, and AirPods.28:26–30:17 · The hosts as informed peer 7/10 TBPN Joins CAA and the 1975 Agency Mutiny Origin Story Announcing their CAA signing, Coogan details the 1975 agency mutiny where five William Morris agents founded Creative Artists Agency, drawing parallels to modern AI lab spin-offs.0:03–3:26 · Guest teaching 0/10 Kling AI's Rapid Growth and Kuaishou's Early History John Coogan delivers an extensive breakdown of Kuaishou's history, tracking its evolution from a 2011 GIF app into a major video platform. He details its DAU milestones and massive oversubscribed IPO without external contest.3:26–8:12 · Guest teaching 0/10 Kuaishou's Public Market Volatility and Kling AI Capabilities Coogan walks through Kuaishou's USD financials, 10-cent-per-second pricing structure, and comparative strengths of Kling against competitors like Sora and VO3. He analyzes compute supply constraints and Meta's potential video model pipeline.8:12–12:28 · Guest teaching 0/10 China's Tech Layoffs and the 'Curse of 35' The hosts discuss the 'Curse of 35' age discrimination in China's tech industry from reporting and contrast the multi-year headcount contraction in Chinese tech against continued expansion across US Mag 7 companies.12:28–19:33 · Guest teaching 0/10 Internal Turmoil and Founder Exits at Thinking Machines Lab Coogan and Hays break down the reporting surrounding the executive fallout between Mira Murati and Barrett Zoff at Thinking Machines Lab, analyzing the talent war dynamics between startups and OpenAI.19:33–26:12 · Guest teaching 3/10 Davos AI Perspectives, Talent Automation, and CapEx Hype A Davos panelist argues that AI leaders promote extreme hype primarily as a sales mechanism to raise hundreds of billions in CapEx. John pushes back immediately, pointing out that Google DeepMind is funded via internal cash flow rather than venture fundraising.26:12–28:26 · Guest teaching 0/10 Jensen Huang's IPO Regret and OpenAI's 'Sweet Pea' Hardware After reacting to Jensen Huang's IPO stock sale clip, Coogan assesses OpenAI's ambitious 50M unit projection for 'Sweet Pea' hardware by referencing historical year-two shipment figures for the iPhone, Echo, Xbox, PS5, and AirPods.28:26–30:17 · Guest teaching 0/10 TBPN Joins CAA and the 1975 Agency Mutiny Origin Story Announcing their CAA signing, Coogan details the 1975 agency mutiny where five William Morris agents founded Creative Artists Agency, drawing parallels to modern AI lab spin-offs.0:03–3:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Kling AI's Rapid Growth and Kuaishou's Early History John Coogan delivers an extensive breakdown of Kuaishou's history, tracking its evolution from a 2011 GIF app into a major video platform. He details its DAU milestones and massive oversubscribed IPO without external contest.3:26–8:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Kuaishou's Public Market Volatility and Kling AI Capabilities Coogan walks through Kuaishou's USD financials, 10-cent-per-second pricing structure, and comparative strengths of Kling against competitors like Sora and VO3. He analyzes compute supply constraints and Meta's potential video model pipeline.8:12–12:28 · Guest disagreement 0/10 China's Tech Layoffs and the 'Curse of 35' The hosts discuss the 'Curse of 35' age discrimination in China's tech industry from reporting and contrast the multi-year headcount contraction in Chinese tech against continued expansion across US Mag 7 companies.12:28–19:33 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Internal Turmoil and Founder Exits at Thinking Machines Lab Coogan and Hays break down the reporting surrounding the executive fallout between Mira Murati and Barrett Zoff at Thinking Machines Lab, analyzing the talent war dynamics between startups and OpenAI.19:33–26:12 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Davos AI Perspectives, Talent Automation, and CapEx Hype A Davos panelist argues that AI leaders promote extreme hype primarily as a sales mechanism to raise hundreds of billions in CapEx. John pushes back immediately, pointing out that Google DeepMind is funded via internal cash flow rather than venture fundraising.26:12–28:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Jensen Huang's IPO Regret and OpenAI's 'Sweet Pea' Hardware After reacting to Jensen Huang's IPO stock sale clip, Coogan assesses OpenAI's ambitious 50M unit projection for 'Sweet Pea' hardware by referencing historical year-two shipment figures for the iPhone, Echo, Xbox, PS5, and AirPods.28:26–30:17 · Guest disagreement 0/10 TBPN Joins CAA and the 1975 Agency Mutiny Origin Story Announcing their CAA signing, Coogan details the 1975 agency mutiny where five William Morris agents founded Creative Artists Agency, drawing parallels to modern AI lab spin-offs.0:03–3:26 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Kling AI's Rapid Growth and Kuaishou's Early History John Coogan delivers an extensive breakdown of Kuaishou's history, tracking its evolution from a 2011 GIF app into a major video platform. He details its DAU milestones and massive oversubscribed IPO without external contest.3:26–8:12 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Kuaishou's Public Market Volatility and Kling AI Capabilities Coogan walks through Kuaishou's USD financials, 10-cent-per-second pricing structure, and comparative strengths of Kling against competitors like Sora and VO3. He analyzes compute supply constraints and Meta's potential video model pipeline.8:12–12:28 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 China's Tech Layoffs and the 'Curse of 35' The hosts discuss the 'Curse of 35' age discrimination in China's tech industry from reporting and contrast the multi-year headcount contraction in Chinese tech against continued expansion across US Mag 7 companies.12:28–19:33 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Internal Turmoil and Founder Exits at Thinking Machines Lab Coogan and Hays break down the reporting surrounding the executive fallout between Mira Murati and Barrett Zoff at Thinking Machines Lab, analyzing the talent war dynamics between startups and OpenAI.19:33–26:12 · The hosts pushing back 6/10 Davos AI Perspectives, Talent Automation, and CapEx Hype A Davos panelist argues that AI leaders promote extreme hype primarily as a sales mechanism to raise hundreds of billions in CapEx. John pushes back immediately, pointing out that Google DeepMind is funded via internal cash flow rather than venture fundraising.26:12–28:26 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 Jensen Huang's IPO Regret and OpenAI's 'Sweet Pea' Hardware After reacting to Jensen Huang's IPO stock sale clip, Coogan assesses OpenAI's ambitious 50M unit projection for 'Sweet Pea' hardware by referencing historical year-two shipment figures for the iPhone, Echo, Xbox, PS5, and AirPods.28:26–30:17 · The hosts pushing back 0/10 TBPN Joins CAA and the 1975 Agency Mutiny Origin Story Announcing their CAA signing, Coogan details the 1975 agency mutiny where five William Morris agents founded Creative Artists Agency, drawing parallels to modern AI lab spin-offs.

speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%0:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%3:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%3:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%6:00 · the hosts 99.5% · guest 0.5%6:00 · the hosts 99.5% · guest 0.5%9:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%9:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%12:00 · the hosts 98.7% · guest 1.3%12:00 · the hosts 98.7% · guest 1.3%15:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%15:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%18:00 · the hosts 93.2% · guest 6.8%18:00 · the hosts 93.2% · guest 6.8%21:00 · the hosts 15.6% · guest 84.4%21:00 · the hosts 15.6% · guest 84.4%24:00 · the hosts 31.1% · guest 68.9%24:00 · the hosts 31.1% · guest 68.9%27:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%27:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%30:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%30:00 · the hosts 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 23:34 Davos panelist labels AI claims as hype mechanism

The Davos panelist cynically dismisses broader AI productivity narratives as necessary hype engineered solely to justify hundreds of billions in CapEx.

Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 25:15 John Coogan rejects panelist's lab fundraising generalization

Coogan interrupts the clip to correct the panelist, highlighting that Demis Hassabis at Google DeepMind relies on corporate cash flow rather than outside capital raising.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 22:12 Davos panelist contextualizes CapEx vs macro debt

The Davos speaker reframes the AI narrative away from private equity recklessness toward global government spending and broader corporate digitization budgets.

The host holds their own ▶ 27:20 Detailed comparative hardware sales metrics

Coogan demonstrates domain expertise by listing year-two unit sales across major consumer electronics to show why OpenAI's Sweet Pea targets are historically unprecedented outside of AirPods.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicThe hosts as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementThe hosts pushing backWhy
Kling AI's Rapid Growth and Kuaishou's Early History 8000 John Coogan delivers an extensive breakdown of Kuaishou's history, tracking its evolution from a 2011 GIF app into a major video platform. He details its DAU milestones and massive oversubscribed IPO without external contest.
Kuaishou's Public Market Volatility and Kling AI Capabilities 8000 Coogan walks through Kuaishou's USD financials, 10-cent-per-second pricing structure, and comparative strengths of Kling against competitors like Sora and VO3. He analyzes compute supply constraints and Meta's potential video model pipeline.
China's Tech Layoffs and the 'Curse of 35' 7000 The hosts discuss the 'Curse of 35' age discrimination in China's tech industry from reporting and contrast the multi-year headcount contraction in Chinese tech against continued expansion across US Mag 7 companies.
Internal Turmoil and Founder Exits at Thinking Machines Lab 6000 Coogan and Hays break down the reporting surrounding the executive fallout between Mira Murati and Barrett Zoff at Thinking Machines Lab, analyzing the talent war dynamics between startups and OpenAI.
Davos AI Perspectives, Talent Automation, and CapEx Hype 7346 A Davos panelist argues that AI leaders promote extreme hype primarily as a sales mechanism to raise hundreds of billions in CapEx. John pushes back immediately, pointing out that Google DeepMind is funded via internal cash flow rather than venture fundraising.
Jensen Huang's IPO Regret and OpenAI's 'Sweet Pea' Hardware 8000 After reacting to Jensen Huang's IPO stock sale clip, Coogan assesses OpenAI's ambitious 50M unit projection for 'Sweet Pea' hardware by referencing historical year-two shipment figures for the iPhone, Echo, Xbox, PS5, and AirPods.
TBPN Joins CAA and the 1975 Agency Mutiny Origin Story 7000 Announcing their CAA signing, Coogan details the 1975 agency mutiny where five William Morris agents founded Creative Artists Agency, drawing parallels to modern AI lab spin-offs.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Supported
Coogan: Kling AI Reached 12M MAUs and $20M+ Revenue Last Year
“There's an article in the Wall Street Journal showing, ah, some pretty staggering numbers. They hit twelve million monthly active users, and they generated more than twenty million in revenue just last year.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 0:09
Assertion Supported
Coogan: Kuaishou generates $2.6B in net profit on $20B revenue
“So, forty billion market cap, twenty billion revenue, eleven billion gross profit, net profit, 2.6 billion.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 4:38
Assertion Supported
Kuaishou claims its Kling AI video platform is gross margin positive
“Interestingly, Kwai Show claims that Kling is gross margin positive.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 5:43
Assertion Supported
Coogan: Alibaba, Baidu, Kuaishou, and Tencent Downsized Headcounts Across 2021–2023
“Big tech groups in China have been downsizing in the past few years. So this is 20, 21, 20, 22 and 20, 23 for Alibaba, Baidu, Kuaishou and Tencent. And they're all downsizing across those three years.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 11:34
Assertion Partly supported
Hays: Every Magnificent Seven Company Increased Headcount Between 2021 and 2023
“I pulled up a mag seven employee counts and every single company in the mag seven has increased headcount over that same period that we just showed.”
Jordi Hays Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 11:50
Assertion Supported
Coogan: 20 OpenAI Employees Left to Join Thinking Machines at Inception
“20 people from OpenAI left during the Thinking Machines Foundation.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 14:52
Assertion Supported
Coogan: Thinking Machines Retains Only Three of Six Original Founders
“The exits, coupled with fellow co-founder Andrew Tulloch's decampment to Meta last fall, leave Thinking Machines with just three of its original six founders.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 15:48
Assertion Partly supported
Coogan: Google DeepMind does not need outside funding, relies on cash flow
“Demis doesn't need to raise. Google's doing this with cash flow. Like, that's true for every other lab lead except for demos.”
John Coogan Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 25:18
Disclosure
Jensen Huang: Sold Nvidia stock at a $300M valuation to buy parents a car
“My only regret was at the IPO, after the IPO, I wanted to buy my parents something nice, and so I sold NVIDIA stock at a valuation of three hundred million dollars. The company was at a valuation of three hundred million dollars, and I bought them a Mercedes S…”
Jensen Huang Jan 22, 2026 ▶ 26:20
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