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Apr 21, 2022 · 55m · startup-ideas

From Community Manager to C-Suite | Jiho, Axie Infinity

Sahil Bloom · 21m spoken Greg Isenberg · 7m spoken
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In this episode, hosts Sahil Bloom and Greg Isenberg interview Axie Infinity co-founder Jiho to explore the rise of player-owned gaming economies, virtual nation-building, and the future of Web3 community distribution.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Greg holds 15.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Greg as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 5.3 Guest disagreement 0.9 Greg pushing back 0.9
05100:0015:0030:0045:003:07–11:26 · Greg as informed peer 7/10 Co-Hosts' Gaming Roots and Competitive History Greg and Sahil swap competitive gaming backstories before Greg breaks down the emerging concept of 'learn to earn' via platforms like RabbitHole and on-chain resumes.11:27–13:52 · Greg as informed peer 3/10 Jiho on Entering Web3 and Defining Utility Through Verbs Jiho shares his entry into Web3 from options trading to CryptoKitties, introducing his mental model of defining asset utility through actionable in-game verbs.13:52–16:08 · Greg as informed peer 3/10 Discovering Axie Infinity and Early NFT Collectibles Jiho recounts joining the Axie Discord during its infancy when only 10 people were active and acquiring early Mystic Axies when unrevealed NFTs were widely suspected to be scams.16:08–18:33 · Greg as informed peer 3/10 Transitioning from Community Member to Chief Growth Officer Jiho immediately corrects Greg's assumption that he is the CEO, explaining his role as Growth Lead and how organic community participation elevated him to the founding executive team.18:34–21:50 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Comparing Free-to-Play and Player-Owned Economic Models Jiho contrasts the extractive 100% take-rate model of traditional publishers with Axie's 4.25% fee, emphasizing that social capital and fun back the game's economy.21:50–24:44 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Community Value Creation and Disruption of Middlemen Jiho lays out his foundational thesis for Web3 disruption, identifying ecosystems where users create value while middlemen extract it, referencing Roblox's monetization pivot.24:44–27:44 · Greg as informed peer 3/10 Physical Community Lessons from Magic: The Gathering The group discusses tabletop gaming economics, with Jiho drawing direct parallels between physical Magic: The Gathering status signaling (Black Lotus) and rare digital collectibles.27:44–30:10 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Navigating Bear Markets and the 'Play and Earn' Shift Sahil presses Jiho on boom-bust hype cycles and price drawdowns. Jiho defends bear markets as essential fermentation and pushes back on the reductive 'play to earn' moniker in favor of 'play and earn'.30:10–33:13 · Greg as informed peer 3/10 The 10-Year Horizon and Ecosystem Player Archetypes Jiho predicts gaming economies surpassing nation-state GDPs and dismisses subjective debates about 'fun' in favor of mapping discrete economic player archetypes.33:14–36:47 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Real-World Economic Impact and Axie as a Borderless Nation Jiho details how third-party guilds like YGG and local physical merchants accept Axie assets, outlining an ambitious vision of acquiring sovereign territory for a special economic zone.36:49–40:04 · Greg as informed peer 5/10 Game Domestic Product and Building Adjacent Startups Greg coins the term 'Game Domestic Product' while comparing Axie's 2.8M DAU to Iceland's population, and Sahil highlights the massive opportunity for peripheral startups.40:04–45:09 · Greg as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Katana DEX and Financial Infrastructure on Ronin Jiho breaks down the launch of the Katana DEX and the necessity of DeFi money markets on Ronin, explaining that Axie acts as an unbanked financial onboarding ramp for emerging markets.45:09–47:15 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Interoperability Standards and Web3 Vampire Growth Strategies Jiho explains his preference for vertical interoperability and describes using token utility as an aggressive vampire attack vector against rival communities like Decentraland.47:16–50:45 · Greg as informed peer 4/10 Traditional Studio Onboarding, Community Distribution, and Wrap-Up Jiho discusses how traditional game studios can leverage Axie's pre-built distribution as 'community as a service,' while Sahil brings up coaching demand from Medify.50:46–52:53 · Greg as informed peer 6/10 Co-Host Takeaways on Community Power and Ecosystems Greg and Sahil debrief post-interview, reflecting on the community-to-executive pipeline and synthesizing the business implications of Game Domestic Product.3:07–11:26 · Guest teaching 0/10 Co-Hosts' Gaming Roots and Competitive History Greg and Sahil swap competitive gaming backstories before Greg breaks down the emerging concept of 'learn to earn' via platforms like RabbitHole and on-chain resumes.11:27–13:52 · Guest teaching 6/10 Jiho on Entering Web3 and Defining Utility Through Verbs Jiho shares his entry into Web3 from options trading to CryptoKitties, introducing his mental model of defining asset utility through actionable in-game verbs.13:52–16:08 · Guest teaching 5/10 Discovering Axie Infinity and Early NFT Collectibles Jiho recounts joining the Axie Discord during its infancy when only 10 people were active and acquiring early Mystic Axies when unrevealed NFTs were widely suspected to be scams.16:08–18:33 · Guest teaching 5/10 Transitioning from Community Member to Chief Growth Officer Jiho immediately corrects Greg's assumption that he is the CEO, explaining his role as Growth Lead and how organic community participation elevated him to the founding executive team.18:34–21:50 · Guest teaching 6/10 Comparing Free-to-Play and Player-Owned Economic Models Jiho contrasts the extractive 100% take-rate model of traditional publishers with Axie's 4.25% fee, emphasizing that social capital and fun back the game's economy.21:50–24:44 · Guest teaching 7/10 Community Value Creation and Disruption of Middlemen Jiho lays out his foundational thesis for Web3 disruption, identifying ecosystems where users create value while middlemen extract it, referencing Roblox's monetization pivot.24:44–27:44 · Guest teaching 6/10 Physical Community Lessons from Magic: The Gathering The group discusses tabletop gaming economics, with Jiho drawing direct parallels between physical Magic: The Gathering status signaling (Black Lotus) and rare digital collectibles.27:44–30:10 · Guest teaching 7/10 Navigating Bear Markets and the 'Play and Earn' Shift Sahil presses Jiho on boom-bust hype cycles and price drawdowns. Jiho defends bear markets as essential fermentation and pushes back on the reductive 'play to earn' moniker in favor of 'play and earn'.30:10–33:13 · Guest teaching 7/10 The 10-Year Horizon and Ecosystem Player Archetypes Jiho predicts gaming economies surpassing nation-state GDPs and dismisses subjective debates about 'fun' in favor of mapping discrete economic player archetypes.33:14–36:47 · Guest teaching 7/10 Real-World Economic Impact and Axie as a Borderless Nation Jiho details how third-party guilds like YGG and local physical merchants accept Axie assets, outlining an ambitious vision of acquiring sovereign territory for a special economic zone.36:49–40:04 · Guest teaching 5/10 Game Domestic Product and Building Adjacent Startups Greg coins the term 'Game Domestic Product' while comparing Axie's 2.8M DAU to Iceland's population, and Sahil highlights the massive opportunity for peripheral startups.40:04–45:09 · Guest teaching 6/10 Introducing Katana DEX and Financial Infrastructure on Ronin Jiho breaks down the launch of the Katana DEX and the necessity of DeFi money markets on Ronin, explaining that Axie acts as an unbanked financial onboarding ramp for emerging markets.45:09–47:15 · Guest teaching 7/10 Interoperability Standards and Web3 Vampire Growth Strategies Jiho explains his preference for vertical interoperability and describes using token utility as an aggressive vampire attack vector against rival communities like Decentraland.47:16–50:45 · Guest teaching 6/10 Traditional Studio Onboarding, Community Distribution, and Wrap-Up Jiho discusses how traditional game studios can leverage Axie's pre-built distribution as 'community as a service,' while Sahil brings up coaching demand from Medify.50:46–52:53 · Guest teaching 0/10 Co-Host Takeaways on Community Power and Ecosystems Greg and Sahil debrief post-interview, reflecting on the community-to-executive pipeline and synthesizing the business implications of Game Domestic Product.3:07–11:26 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Co-Hosts' Gaming Roots and Competitive History Greg and Sahil swap competitive gaming backstories before Greg breaks down the emerging concept of 'learn to earn' via platforms like RabbitHole and on-chain resumes.11:27–13:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Jiho on Entering Web3 and Defining Utility Through Verbs Jiho shares his entry into Web3 from options trading to CryptoKitties, introducing his mental model of defining asset utility through actionable in-game verbs.13:52–16:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Discovering Axie Infinity and Early NFT Collectibles Jiho recounts joining the Axie Discord during its infancy when only 10 people were active and acquiring early Mystic Axies when unrevealed NFTs were widely suspected to be scams.16:08–18:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Transitioning from Community Member to Chief Growth Officer Jiho immediately corrects Greg's assumption that he is the CEO, explaining his role as Growth Lead and how organic community participation elevated him to the founding executive team.18:34–21:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Comparing Free-to-Play and Player-Owned Economic Models Jiho contrasts the extractive 100% take-rate model of traditional publishers with Axie's 4.25% fee, emphasizing that social capital and fun back the game's economy.21:50–24:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Community Value Creation and Disruption of Middlemen Jiho lays out his foundational thesis for Web3 disruption, identifying ecosystems where users create value while middlemen extract it, referencing Roblox's monetization pivot.24:44–27:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Physical Community Lessons from Magic: The Gathering The group discusses tabletop gaming economics, with Jiho drawing direct parallels between physical Magic: The Gathering status signaling (Black Lotus) and rare digital collectibles.27:44–30:10 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Navigating Bear Markets and the 'Play and Earn' Shift Sahil presses Jiho on boom-bust hype cycles and price drawdowns. Jiho defends bear markets as essential fermentation and pushes back on the reductive 'play to earn' moniker in favor of 'play and earn'.30:10–33:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The 10-Year Horizon and Ecosystem Player Archetypes Jiho predicts gaming economies surpassing nation-state GDPs and dismisses subjective debates about 'fun' in favor of mapping discrete economic player archetypes.33:14–36:47 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Real-World Economic Impact and Axie as a Borderless Nation Jiho details how third-party guilds like YGG and local physical merchants accept Axie assets, outlining an ambitious vision of acquiring sovereign territory for a special economic zone.36:49–40:04 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Game Domestic Product and Building Adjacent Startups Greg coins the term 'Game Domestic Product' while comparing Axie's 2.8M DAU to Iceland's population, and Sahil highlights the massive opportunity for peripheral startups.40:04–45:09 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Introducing Katana DEX and Financial Infrastructure on Ronin Jiho breaks down the launch of the Katana DEX and the necessity of DeFi money markets on Ronin, explaining that Axie acts as an unbanked financial onboarding ramp for emerging markets.45:09–47:15 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Interoperability Standards and Web3 Vampire Growth Strategies Jiho explains his preference for vertical interoperability and describes using token utility as an aggressive vampire attack vector against rival communities like Decentraland.47:16–50:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Traditional Studio Onboarding, Community Distribution, and Wrap-Up Jiho discusses how traditional game studios can leverage Axie's pre-built distribution as 'community as a service,' while Sahil brings up coaching demand from Medify.50:46–52:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Co-Host Takeaways on Community Power and Ecosystems Greg and Sahil debrief post-interview, reflecting on the community-to-executive pipeline and synthesizing the business implications of Game Domestic Product.3:07–11:26 · Greg pushing back 0/10 Co-Hosts' Gaming Roots and Competitive History Greg and Sahil swap competitive gaming backstories before Greg breaks down the emerging concept of 'learn to earn' via platforms like RabbitHole and on-chain resumes.11:27–13:52 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Jiho on Entering Web3 and Defining Utility Through Verbs Jiho shares his entry into Web3 from options trading to CryptoKitties, introducing his mental model of defining asset utility through actionable in-game verbs.13:52–16:08 · Greg pushing back 0/10 Discovering Axie Infinity and Early NFT Collectibles Jiho recounts joining the Axie Discord during its infancy when only 10 people were active and acquiring early Mystic Axies when unrevealed NFTs were widely suspected to be scams.16:08–18:33 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Transitioning from Community Member to Chief Growth Officer Jiho immediately corrects Greg's assumption that he is the CEO, explaining his role as Growth Lead and how organic community participation elevated him to the founding executive team.18:34–21:50 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Comparing Free-to-Play and Player-Owned Economic Models Jiho contrasts the extractive 100% take-rate model of traditional publishers with Axie's 4.25% fee, emphasizing that social capital and fun back the game's economy.21:50–24:44 · Greg pushing back 0/10 Community Value Creation and Disruption of Middlemen Jiho lays out his foundational thesis for Web3 disruption, identifying ecosystems where users create value while middlemen extract it, referencing Roblox's monetization pivot.24:44–27:44 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Physical Community Lessons from Magic: The Gathering The group discusses tabletop gaming economics, with Jiho drawing direct parallels between physical Magic: The Gathering status signaling (Black Lotus) and rare digital collectibles.27:44–30:10 · Greg pushing back 4/10 Navigating Bear Markets and the 'Play and Earn' Shift Sahil presses Jiho on boom-bust hype cycles and price drawdowns. Jiho defends bear markets as essential fermentation and pushes back on the reductive 'play to earn' moniker in favor of 'play and earn'.30:10–33:13 · Greg pushing back 1/10 The 10-Year Horizon and Ecosystem Player Archetypes Jiho predicts gaming economies surpassing nation-state GDPs and dismisses subjective debates about 'fun' in favor of mapping discrete economic player archetypes.33:14–36:47 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Real-World Economic Impact and Axie as a Borderless Nation Jiho details how third-party guilds like YGG and local physical merchants accept Axie assets, outlining an ambitious vision of acquiring sovereign territory for a special economic zone.36:49–40:04 · Greg pushing back 0/10 Game Domestic Product and Building Adjacent Startups Greg coins the term 'Game Domestic Product' while comparing Axie's 2.8M DAU to Iceland's population, and Sahil highlights the massive opportunity for peripheral startups.40:04–45:09 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Introducing Katana DEX and Financial Infrastructure on Ronin Jiho breaks down the launch of the Katana DEX and the necessity of DeFi money markets on Ronin, explaining that Axie acts as an unbanked financial onboarding ramp for emerging markets.45:09–47:15 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Interoperability Standards and Web3 Vampire Growth Strategies Jiho explains his preference for vertical interoperability and describes using token utility as an aggressive vampire attack vector against rival communities like Decentraland.47:16–50:45 · Greg pushing back 1/10 Traditional Studio Onboarding, Community Distribution, and Wrap-Up Jiho discusses how traditional game studios can leverage Axie's pre-built distribution as 'community as a service,' while Sahil brings up coaching demand from Medify.50:46–52:53 · Greg pushing back 0/10 Co-Host Takeaways on Community Power and Ecosystems Greg and Sahil debrief post-interview, reflecting on the community-to-executive pipeline and synthesizing the business implications of Game Domestic Product.

speaking balance: gold is Greg, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Greg 4.5% · guest 95.5%0:00 · Greg 4.5% · guest 95.5%3:00 · Greg 46.7% · guest 53.3%3:00 · Greg 46.7% · guest 53.3%6:00 · Greg 45.6% · guest 54.4%6:00 · Greg 45.6% · guest 54.4%9:00 · Greg 29.1% · guest 70.9%9:00 · Greg 29.1% · guest 70.9%12:00 · Greg 1.9% · guest 98.1%12:00 · Greg 1.9% · guest 98.1%15:00 · Greg 15.3% · guest 84.7%15:00 · Greg 15.3% · guest 84.7%18:00 · Greg 6.5% · guest 93.5%18:00 · Greg 6.5% · guest 93.5%21:00 · Greg 3.3% · guest 96.7%21:00 · Greg 3.3% · guest 96.7%24:00 · Greg 20.9% · guest 79.1%24:00 · Greg 20.9% · guest 79.1%27:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%27:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%30:00 · Greg 23.4% · guest 76.6%30:00 · Greg 23.4% · guest 76.6%33:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%33:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%36:00 · Greg 39.8% · guest 60.2%36:00 · Greg 39.8% · guest 60.2%39:00 · Greg 3.6% · guest 96.4%39:00 · Greg 3.6% · guest 96.4%42:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%42:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%45:00 · Greg 22% · guest 78%45:00 · Greg 22% · guest 78%48:00 · Greg 5.4% · guest 94.6%48:00 · Greg 5.4% · guest 94.6%51:00 · Greg 22.3% · guest 77.7%51:00 · Greg 22.3% · guest 77.7%54:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%54:00 · Greg 0% · guest 100%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 29:23 Jiho rejects the 'play to earn' media narrative

Jiho directly dismisses the industry buzzword 'play to earn,' insisting it obscures core gameplay fun and insisting on the term 'play and earn' instead.

 Hardest push from Greg ▶ 27:40 Sahil challenges the sustainability of hype-driven token models

Sahil directly presses Jiho on the severe drawbacks, speculative hype cycles, and token price collapses inherent in play-to-earn models.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 21:58 Jiho's Web3 thesis on extracting middleman disruption

Jiho educates the hosts with a crisp macro thesis: identifying any market where user-generated community work is heavily taxed by centralized middlemen as ripe for crypto disruption.

 Greg holds their own ▶ 5:16 Greg explains on-chain credentialing via RabbitHole

Greg demonstrates deep Web3 domain knowledge by detailing protocol token distribution, learn-to-earn quest loops, and verified on-chain resumes.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGreg as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGreg pushing backWhy
Co-Hosts' Gaming Roots and Competitive History 7000 Greg and Sahil swap competitive gaming backstories before Greg breaks down the emerging concept of 'learn to earn' via platforms like RabbitHole and on-chain resumes.
Jiho on Entering Web3 and Defining Utility Through Verbs 3611 Jiho shares his entry into Web3 from options trading to CryptoKitties, introducing his mental model of defining asset utility through actionable in-game verbs.
Discovering Axie Infinity and Early NFT Collectibles 3500 Jiho recounts joining the Axie Discord during its infancy when only 10 people were active and acquiring early Mystic Axies when unrevealed NFTs were widely suspected to be scams.
Transitioning from Community Member to Chief Growth Officer 3521 Jiho immediately corrects Greg's assumption that he is the CEO, explaining his role as Growth Lead and how organic community participation elevated him to the founding executive team.
Comparing Free-to-Play and Player-Owned Economic Models 4611 Jiho contrasts the extractive 100% take-rate model of traditional publishers with Axie's 4.25% fee, emphasizing that social capital and fun back the game's economy.
Community Value Creation and Disruption of Middlemen 4710 Jiho lays out his foundational thesis for Web3 disruption, identifying ecosystems where users create value while middlemen extract it, referencing Roblox's monetization pivot.
Physical Community Lessons from Magic: The Gathering 3601 The group discusses tabletop gaming economics, with Jiho drawing direct parallels between physical Magic: The Gathering status signaling (Black Lotus) and rare digital collectibles.
Navigating Bear Markets and the 'Play and Earn' Shift 4734 Sahil presses Jiho on boom-bust hype cycles and price drawdowns. Jiho defends bear markets as essential fermentation and pushes back on the reductive 'play to earn' moniker in favor of 'play and earn'.
The 10-Year Horizon and Ecosystem Player Archetypes 3721 Jiho predicts gaming economies surpassing nation-state GDPs and dismisses subjective debates about 'fun' in favor of mapping discrete economic player archetypes.
Real-World Economic Impact and Axie as a Borderless Nation 4711 Jiho details how third-party guilds like YGG and local physical merchants accept Axie assets, outlining an ambitious vision of acquiring sovereign territory for a special economic zone.
Game Domestic Product and Building Adjacent Startups 5500 Greg coins the term 'Game Domestic Product' while comparing Axie's 2.8M DAU to Iceland's population, and Sahil highlights the massive opportunity for peripheral startups.
Introducing Katana DEX and Financial Infrastructure on Ronin 5601 Jiho breaks down the launch of the Katana DEX and the necessity of DeFi money markets on Ronin, explaining that Axie acts as an unbanked financial onboarding ramp for emerging markets.
Interoperability Standards and Web3 Vampire Growth Strategies 4721 Jiho explains his preference for vertical interoperability and describes using token utility as an aggressive vampire attack vector against rival communities like Decentraland.
Traditional Studio Onboarding, Community Distribution, and Wrap-Up 4611 Jiho discusses how traditional game studios can leverage Axie's pre-built distribution as 'community as a service,' while Sahil brings up coaching demand from Medify.
Co-Host Takeaways on Community Power and Ecosystems 6000 Greg and Sahil debrief post-interview, reflecting on the community-to-executive pipeline and synthesizing the business implications of Game Domestic Product.

Statements from this episode (1)

Prediction Not checkable as stated
Isenberg: On-chain resumes will enable hiring within 60 seconds
“I believe that in the future you'll have your resume on chain, and you'll be able to apply at a job, and then within 60 seconds get that job, because, you know, those people know that you are great at Uniswap, or you understand how to code in Rust, or Solidity…”
Greg Isenberg Apr 21, 2022 ▶ 7:24
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