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Jul 22, 2024 · 19m · starter-story

I Built A $1M SaaS In 87 Days

Andre Heckel Jr. · 13m spoken Pat Walls · 3m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this Starter Story interview, entrepreneur Andre Heckel Jr. details how he scaled his B2B software platform, ListKit, to $1 million ARR in 87 days using the productized SaaS model. He breaks down his strategies for bootstrapped growth, lean international hiring, high-converting pricing, and competing against industry giants.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Pat holds 22.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Pat as informed peer 1.6 Guest teaching 4.0 Guest disagreement 0.8 Pat pushing back 0.2
05100:0010:001:12–5:17 · Pat as informed peer 2/10 Overview of ListKit and Current Business Metrics Pat acts primarily as a facilitator asking high-level prompt questions about the business model and metrics. Andre educates listeners on the productized SaaS framework as an alternative to VC-funded development.5:17–7:41 · Pat as informed peer 1/10 Starter Story Entrepreneurship Resource Announcement The segment opens with an ad read and transitions into Andre sharing his journey of burning cash on developers before finding a technical co-founder. The exchange is completely collaborative with no friction.7:41–10:18 · Pat as informed peer 2/10 Pricing Strategy and Growth Channels Pat prompts Andre on pricing, outbound lead generation, and ad creatives. Andre explains how offering a 50-free-leads lead magnet bypassed standard low-ticket SaaS cold email hurdles.10:19–14:31 · Pat as informed peer 2/10 No Free Trials and Global Team Scaling Andre pushes back against standard SaaS free trials, arguing they attract non-buyers, and explains offshore hiring economics across Lebanon and Ukraine to maintain profitability.14:32–18:06 · Pat as informed peer 1/10 Customer Retention, Daily Routine, and Entrepreneurial Mindset Pat asks about daily routines, customer retention, and entrepreneurial advice. Andre details how manual onboarding calls drastically lower churn and discusses long-term consistency.1:12–5:17 · Guest teaching 5/10 Overview of ListKit and Current Business Metrics Pat acts primarily as a facilitator asking high-level prompt questions about the business model and metrics. Andre educates listeners on the productized SaaS framework as an alternative to VC-funded development.5:17–7:41 · Guest teaching 3/10 Starter Story Entrepreneurship Resource Announcement The segment opens with an ad read and transitions into Andre sharing his journey of burning cash on developers before finding a technical co-founder. The exchange is completely collaborative with no friction.7:41–10:18 · Guest teaching 4/10 Pricing Strategy and Growth Channels Pat prompts Andre on pricing, outbound lead generation, and ad creatives. Andre explains how offering a 50-free-leads lead magnet bypassed standard low-ticket SaaS cold email hurdles.10:19–14:31 · Guest teaching 5/10 No Free Trials and Global Team Scaling Andre pushes back against standard SaaS free trials, arguing they attract non-buyers, and explains offshore hiring economics across Lebanon and Ukraine to maintain profitability.14:32–18:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Retention, Daily Routine, and Entrepreneurial Mindset Pat asks about daily routines, customer retention, and entrepreneurial advice. Andre details how manual onboarding calls drastically lower churn and discusses long-term consistency.1:12–5:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overview of ListKit and Current Business Metrics Pat acts primarily as a facilitator asking high-level prompt questions about the business model and metrics. Andre educates listeners on the productized SaaS framework as an alternative to VC-funded development.5:17–7:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Starter Story Entrepreneurship Resource Announcement The segment opens with an ad read and transitions into Andre sharing his journey of burning cash on developers before finding a technical co-founder. The exchange is completely collaborative with no friction.7:41–10:18 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Pricing Strategy and Growth Channels Pat prompts Andre on pricing, outbound lead generation, and ad creatives. Andre explains how offering a 50-free-leads lead magnet bypassed standard low-ticket SaaS cold email hurdles.10:19–14:31 · Guest disagreement 2/10 No Free Trials and Global Team Scaling Andre pushes back against standard SaaS free trials, arguing they attract non-buyers, and explains offshore hiring economics across Lebanon and Ukraine to maintain profitability.14:32–18:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Customer Retention, Daily Routine, and Entrepreneurial Mindset Pat asks about daily routines, customer retention, and entrepreneurial advice. Andre details how manual onboarding calls drastically lower churn and discusses long-term consistency.1:12–5:17 · Pat pushing back 0/10 Overview of ListKit and Current Business Metrics Pat acts primarily as a facilitator asking high-level prompt questions about the business model and metrics. Andre educates listeners on the productized SaaS framework as an alternative to VC-funded development.5:17–7:41 · Pat pushing back 0/10 Starter Story Entrepreneurship Resource Announcement The segment opens with an ad read and transitions into Andre sharing his journey of burning cash on developers before finding a technical co-founder. The exchange is completely collaborative with no friction.7:41–10:18 · Pat pushing back 0/10 Pricing Strategy and Growth Channels Pat prompts Andre on pricing, outbound lead generation, and ad creatives. Andre explains how offering a 50-free-leads lead magnet bypassed standard low-ticket SaaS cold email hurdles.10:19–14:31 · Pat pushing back 1/10 No Free Trials and Global Team Scaling Andre pushes back against standard SaaS free trials, arguing they attract non-buyers, and explains offshore hiring economics across Lebanon and Ukraine to maintain profitability.14:32–18:06 · Pat pushing back 0/10 Customer Retention, Daily Routine, and Entrepreneurial Mindset Pat asks about daily routines, customer retention, and entrepreneurial advice. Andre details how manual onboarding calls drastically lower churn and discusses long-term consistency.

speaking balance: gold is Pat, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Pat 43.7% · guest 56.3%0:00 · Pat 43.7% · guest 56.3%3:00 · Pat 27.4% · guest 72.6%3:00 · Pat 27.4% · guest 72.6%6:00 · Pat 14.6% · guest 85.4%6:00 · Pat 14.6% · guest 85.4%9:00 · Pat 12.9% · guest 87.1%9:00 · Pat 12.9% · guest 87.1%12:00 · Pat 5.4% · guest 94.6%12:00 · Pat 5.4% · guest 94.6%15:00 · Pat 9.2% · guest 90.8%15:00 · Pat 9.2% · guest 90.8%18:00 · Pat 92.2% · guest 7.8%18:00 · Pat 92.2% · guest 7.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:22 Dismissing Free Trials as Freebie Traps

Andre rejects standard SaaS free trial dogma, stating it attracts non-buyers and freebie seekers, advocating instead for an upfront charge with a money-back guarantee.

 Hardest push from Pat ▶ 10:59 Questioning 40-Person Team Profitability

Pat probes how a bootstrapped, low-ticket SaaS can remain profitable while carrying a payroll of 40 people.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:52 Educating on Productized Service Validation

Andre breaks down why manual backend fulfillment is superior to building software first, proving market demand and building cash flow with zero dev fees.

 Pat holds their own ▶ 5:17 Synthesizing the Productized SaaS Playbook

Pat demonstrates his understanding of the model by framing and summarizing how service businesses can be systematically converted into scalable software.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicPat as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementPat pushing backWhy
Overview of ListKit and Current Business Metrics 2510 Pat acts primarily as a facilitator asking high-level prompt questions about the business model and metrics. Andre educates listeners on the productized SaaS framework as an alternative to VC-funded development.
Starter Story Entrepreneurship Resource Announcement 1300 The segment opens with an ad read and transitions into Andre sharing his journey of burning cash on developers before finding a technical co-founder. The exchange is completely collaborative with no friction.
Pricing Strategy and Growth Channels 2410 Pat prompts Andre on pricing, outbound lead generation, and ad creatives. Andre explains how offering a 50-free-leads lead magnet bypassed standard low-ticket SaaS cold email hurdles.
No Free Trials and Global Team Scaling 2521 Andre pushes back against standard SaaS free trials, arguing they attract non-buyers, and explains offshore hiring economics across Lebanon and Ukraine to maintain profitability.
Customer Retention, Daily Routine, and Entrepreneurial Mindset 1300 Pat asks about daily routines, customer retention, and entrepreneurial advice. Andre details how manual onboarding calls drastically lower churn and discusses long-term consistency.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit grew to $1M ARR in 87 days
“In 87 days, we grew it to a million dollars ARR. Zero to a million. From the launch of the actual SaaS, yeah. That's the first 87 days.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 1:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit gained 1,500 paying customers in its first year
“Just within the first six months, we had our first 1000 paying customers, and as of right now, almost a year into the business, we have over 1500 Paying customers.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 1:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit nears $200,000 in monthly recurring revenue
“So yeah, we started the business last July. Right now is June, 2024, and we're about to just surpass 200,000 dollars in MRR.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 2:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit spends $175,000 monthly on team and marketing
“The team cost is over a 100,000 dollars. Total cost to grow the business, including ads and marketing and acquisition is anywhere from 150 to 175,000 dollars a month to maintain.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 2:47
Disclosure
Andre Heckel Jr.: Agency hit a hard ceiling at $100,000 a month
“And we grew that business to a hundred K a month to us. That was a massive success. But the problem we ran into is we couldn't scale it really past that.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 3:24
Opinion
Andre Heckel Jr.: Productized service is only non-VC way to start SaaS
“So I think the approach is the only way To go about it. If you don't have startup capital and if you don't want to go the venture capital route and what that is, is starting with a productized service.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 3:58
Insight
Andre Heckel Jr.: Build SaaS by incrementally improving competitor products
“Because the other thing about SaaS is you're not starting from scratch. You're following other competitors and making small tweaks and changes to improve upon what someone else has already built.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 8:01
Insight
Andre Heckel Jr.: Ad creatives fatigue quickly past $300 daily spend
“But the thing with ads is the creatives don't last very long as you start to scale. Like once you get past 304 hundred dollars a day in spend, you really have to create new creatives.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 9:46
Disclosure
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit tests 20 new ad creatives every week
“So we're testing almost 20 new creatives every week. 10 different static images, 10 different variations of videos with different headlines, different copy, different people in the videos, right?”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 10:07
Insight
Andre Heckel Jr.: SaaS free trials attract non-buyers over paying customers
“I just think it attracts the wrong buyer or person because they're not a buyer. You're attracting freebie seekers. We knew people coming to our website. It's low ticket enough To buy and it's low commitment enough. And instead of a free trial, what we did is w…”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 10:23
Opinion
Andre Heckel Jr.: Lebanese hires match US talent for $1,000 monthly
“You're paying anywhere from a thousand to 2000 dollars a month to get someone full time from Lebanon who's as good as, or better in my opinion, than someone in the U.S. That you might have to pay anywhere from five to 8000 dollars a month.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 11:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit grew by cloning Apollo with verified leads
“Because I was a user of Apollo already, the one thing I knew that I did not like, and other people also did not like after speaking to them was the fact that Apollo leads were not verified. And so that presented an opportunity to say, okay, we can build exactl…”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 12:10
Disclosure
Andre Heckel Jr.: ListKit offers 1-on-1 onboarding to every new purchaser
“Every single customer that purchases list kit, we offer them to get on a one-on-one onboarding call.”
Andre Heckel Jr. Jul 22, 2024 ▶ 14:40
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