The Exchanges

Q And Anitish, you also raised from Rakesh Junjunwala, sir. Uh, right. How, how did that happen? Right. I'm very interested to know that story.

A No, sure. I think we had some common connections and, um, I kind of, uh, you know, reached out to him and his team connected with me. And, uh, he really, we just had one meeting before he decided to invest in the company. And I think what he liked was two, three things. One was obviously gaming as a macro trend, uh, which is going to become very large in the years to come is something he really believed in. Uh, the second was Nazara had persevered over a very long time, right? When he met us in 2017, uh, we had already existed for 17 years. So he felt that we had the capability to persevere for a long time and the energy to persevere for a long time. So even for the next decade, We could actually persevere as the market grows. And third, being a value investor, he appreciated our use of capital, limited use of capital, uh, and other high levels of profitability and cash flows that we generated. Unlike a lot of the other businesses, he was seeing in the tech space, burning a lot of money. I think these were the three things that he really liked and which is why he invested in the company, uh, in late,

AI assessment note: “we had some common connections and, um, I kind of, uh, you know, reached out”

Q And can you share your journey, like key milestones from 2003, what you built, what are the revenue sources that keep the company floating? How did you repay back the debt?

A Yeah, I think, uh, uh, So the debt was repaid by 2004, uh, you know, through revenue models that I kind of been able to generate profits and been able to generate. From 2004, we kind of jumped back into gaming in a proper way. We focused on mobile phone gaming instead of, you know, the online gaming that we were doing. Started working with many telcos in India, expanded that business globally over the years. So by 2000, I would say seven, eight, we were running a fairly profitable, tight, lean and mean shop in that sense. Westbridge Capital had invested in 2005 and 2007 small amounts of money, 1.5 million dollars each. It raised a total of three million dollars, and by then the company had become profitable. So then we focused very much because of the early struggle that we had, our focus was a lot on cash flows, not chasing vanity metrics, focus on tangible business. So from 2007 to about 2015, we raised, I mean, not raised, we kind of accumulated profits of about 202 150 crores. Uh, and hadn't raised any more capital. Uh, from 2015 onwards, we kind of started again expanding into different verticals of gaming, and we approached, uh, I would say, uh, acquisition driven strategy, uh, which we also like to call friends of Nazara, uh, you know, uh, ecosystem. And that also worked out very well for us and was an enabler in terms of the IPO that happened as we were able to, you kno…

AI assessment note: “So the debt was repaid by 2004, uh, you know, through revenue models”

Q And then dot com happened. What happened to the business back then?

A Yeah, I mean, at that time, we were all chasing vanity metrics, page views, and number of users, etc. Really revenue was a second afterthought, and really proper viable revenue models didn't exist. So, I kind of, you know, Uh, post.com crash, I would say April onwards, right, of 2000. Uh, there was a lot of flux. It took me time. I was a young entrepreneur. Took me time to understand what was happening. So lost a bit of money. Took me two, three years to kind of recover and pay that back. So really lost, I think three, four years in that. It was a struggle, but a great experience. Uh, I often say I did an expensive, but enriching MBA sitting right here in Mumbai.

AI assessment note: “lost a bit of money. Took me two, three years to kind of recover”

Q And if you can share your, you know, your, the point you decided to take your company public, right? And some key part of the processes, right? It said that taking your company public in India is very hard because of the regulatory compliances.

A Yeah. So we decided, we took a call to, you know, take the company public in 2017 and we made our first attempt in 2018. It took us almost a year to get to that point. But because of bad markets, we had to kind of pull back the launch at that point of time. But that learning experience for us, that one year learning experience for us was fantastic. The regulations are fairly strict in India, you know, fairly in depth also. So there's a lot of work and a lot of partners that come together to make this happen, whether it's lawyers, whether it's auditors, Right. Uh, the merchant bankers, and you have to understand everything. So for us, that first attempt was a fantastic learning experience. The second time we plan to relaunch it was in, I think early, and, uh, by the time we got started was mid, and we listed in March. So it took us about six to nine months. I would say it was far more easier to process the second time around because we had already kind of, you know, learned what's needed. So it was more of the execution work then rather than the learning work. And all our partners came up, came out and really worked very well for us. I think it's very critical for any company going IPO to ensure they choose the right partners, because if you have a weak link in this whole chain, then it is going to break. Uh, and I, I must also commend, I was, uh, pleasantly surprised with the w…

AI assessment note: “we took a call to, you know, take the company public in 2017”

Q If any entrepreneur, you know, besides Perseverness has to emulate habits of Nitesh and emulate habits, skills of Nitesh, what would that be?

A I think, uh, what I like to do is one is have a very positive approach in whatever we do, and I'll cite specific example. For example, Nazara in its two decades journey has had Very little to no litigation, either by us or on us, right? And in over two periods of, uh, two decades of journey, that's a long period of time. And the reason for that has been my thought process that, you know, any time spent fighting with anybody generates a lot of negative energy, which kind of harms our own thinking, our own bandwidth, right? So it's always better to meet up face to face, sort the problem out. Even if you need to leave something on the table, leave it, but move on. Because the amount of time you will save on that negative energy and convert it into positive energy will make a world of a difference. So that's, I think, one philosophy we have had, which has helped us, again, not necessarily this philosophy would work for everybody in every industry, but having a very positive collaborative approach Uh, to our partners, to our competitors, to our team, and to life in general, I think is something we are very committed to. And usually we do not, uh, do anything that would steal our sleep at night. Uh, and this, this kind of shows up in very small, small things, right? For example, we rarely enter into contracts that have large future commitments that we have made. Because, uh, We know …

AI assessment note: “one is have a very positive approach in whatever we do, and I'll cite specific example.”

Q And for you, even building a business for more than 20 years, was it a tiring journey?

A Yeah, I mean, I think over 20 years, right, uh, I would say gaming always looked like a, I would say it was like a oasis in the desert, not an oasis, a mirage in the desert, right? You would think was next year or the year after gaming is going to take off, and then you would get to that point, and it would still feel, you know, the market is not there, and it'll be there in another two years. Also, the industry would go through a lot of hype and Pessimism cycles, right? Suddenly there would be a lot of excitement, then that would die down, then there would be a lot of pessimism, saying that, you know, money can't be made in gaming. So I think, yeah, it's been a long journey, and I would be joking to say that at times, you know, there was fatigue. But I think what we did well was be able to pick ourselves up, you know, persevere, And fight, uh, live to fight for another day. I think because of our conservative nature, we didn't burn a lot of money and we were accumulating funds through our profits. So at least it allowed us to keep existing and keep sustaining till the opportunities really presented themselves to ourselves. And I think that was critical in a business where you were too early in the market, but it's very easy to get burned out, uh, in that kind of an environment.

AI assessment note: “I would be joking to say that at times, you know, there was fatigue.”

Q In the last year, in the last 20 years as an entrepreneur, was it ever a phase that you relaxed or was always a relentless journey?

A You know, I can't, I can't really recollect a time where I would have at least mentally relaxed. You know, you physically, of course, you go for holidays, you take a break, etc. But your mind is unfortunately, as an entrepreneur, always active, right? You can't really switch it off. And I can't recollect. I think even our honeymoon period of the IPO, our IPO was very successful, perhaps lasted all of one day. Before it was back to the same, same grind, right? And what do we do next? And how do we, you know, scale and how do we go ahead? But I think that's the definition of an entrepreneur. You'll never be able to switch off thinking about your work. I try hard, but it's, it's tough. What I have done, of course, is I have some hobbies, like I play the saxophone. I've been part of a band. So those times allow me to de-stress in a way or take my mind off work for that period of time. And I think that's a must for all entrepreneurs. They should have some hobby and some passion that they're pursuing because you have to strike the right balance in your life to be most productive.

AI assessment note: “I can't really recollect a time where I would have at least mentally relaxed.”

Q Even today, you know, in India, and that is a sad aspect of being an entrepreneur in India. We see only single digit companies every year, startups, especially going public. Do you think there will be a time in India when we'll see hundreds of startups going public in a year?

A Yeah, I'm waiting for the day NSE becomes the NASDAQ of India. I think, uh, that, uh, day is not very far away. So I think, uh, you know, uh, when we listed, we were one of three or four new media, new tech companies, uh, listing in Indian market. Uh, but, uh, you are already seeing this year, right? Many tech companies, uh, lined up for listings. Zomato just got approved and many more are in the line. And in the next two, three years, you will see that accelerate significantly. So I think that bell has been rung, and now you're going to see a long queue of quality companies. And also a lot of groundwork has happened, right, over the last decade. Investors have invested, lot of companies have developed, grown. So you have, even in India, already a large enough ecosystem. So I think, uh, without any doubt that, uh, You know, you're going to see a large explosion of tech companies going public in India, creating immense value. And, uh, that's going to be very exciting.

AI assessment note: “I think, uh, that, uh, day is not very far away.”

Q And which was the company? Which were the companies that you acquired from, and what value did, I mean, if you can share.

A We acquired Nodwin Gaming, which is the leader in e-sports in India. A majority stake in that company. We acquired Nextwave Multimedia, which is the producers of World Cricket Championship. Then later on, we did Paperboat Apps, which have extremely popular kits, Apple Kidopia, which is especially very popular in the US market. We bought a news, a sports news media company called sportskeeda.com, which is also part of a portfolio. In recent times, we've acquired a company in Turkey, which is a game marketing agency called publish me. So I think that, that model of friends of Nazara has now got set over the last three, four years is working well for us. And we find that as a fantastic way to, you know, partner and align with, you know, passionate founders and management teams. Uh, with whom we can kind of, you know, approach our common dream in that sense of, you know, doing something big in the gaming space.

AI assessment note: “We acquired Nodwin Gaming... Nextwave Multimedia... Paperboat Apps... sportskeeda.com”

Q know your views on, right? In the last 20 years, do you think that, uh, entrepreneurship in India, because now you have built globally, right? The Nazara ecosystem is global. Being an entrepreneur in India is very hard. Raising capital is hard. Hiring is hard. User acquisition and then monetization of the users is hard. When, when does it become easy for a founder relatively in India in his journey?

A You know, I'll be very honest. I can't comment on that because I have only worked in India and therefore I don't have a comparative to really look at. Right. Had I studied in the US, or had I worked in the US, or had I set up a company in the US, then I could say US is much easier than India, or it's not. The life of an entrepreneur is tough. There's no two things about that. Whether it's because of the nature of being an entrepreneur, that it's tough, or because of being an entrepreneur in India, it is tough. Uh, I really don't know, but I have not had any, I have, in the last two decades, I have not had any such big issues per se, uh, that have come in my way because I've been in India. Of course, gaming also was really not a, not a business till now that was regulated or had any interference, etc. And therefore, maybe we were kind of under the radar. I don't know, but, uh, At least we have not faced any, uh, you know, problems of being in India per se.

AI assessment note: “I can't comment on that because I have only worked in India”