The Exchanges

Q When you used to face such doubts openly from your seniors, did you come and share it with your husband who helped you, you know, get self belief back? Or was it, was it just that you need to prove yourself determination?

A At that time, my husband was not with me. Uh, he was in another subdivision that was in Ranchi. I was in Patna. But the only thing I think which held me was my own determination, and even though the DG's office was, you know, pushing me back, my senior SP and the DIG under whom I was trained, they were very keen to train me, and they made me do everything which a male police officer is supposed to do. So, there they did not distinguish between a male and a Um, female officer. And I'm really grateful to my DIG and to my senior SP who put everything in front of me and said that this is what you have to do. This is what you have to do. And they expected me, they would supervise my work quite closely. And I think they also took it as a mission to train me. And I was of course, determined to learn everything. I was determined to learn anything. So didn't, I didn't shirk anything.

AI assessment note: “the only thing I think which held me was my own determination”

Q Well, and, and tell us about, you know, you mentioned that, uh, Mr. Lalu Prasad Yadav as a chief minister, uh, your first stint working with him, what was the experience like over a period of time?

A So, I worked under him from 91 to 94, from 91 to 92 not so directly because I was just there and I was an SP in the intelligence branch, but from 92 to 94 I was DIG Patna and that was the time when I was directly because you know, so many things are happening in Patna and he would issue instructions, keep telling you to do things and that time I felt that he was a, He brought a new kind of thinking. He was very hands-on. He was everywhere. Earlier, I had not seen a chief minister arriving at a crime spot, arriving to handle a law and order situation. He was like that. And even giving instructions. When I was posted in the, in Bokaro steel plant, I don't remember the chief minister, even if he arrived, Uh, he would be sitting and discussing that what are the exact things which have to be done. After the anti-Sikh riots, the chief minister was Mr. Chandrasekhar Singh. He was a very good, uh, chief minister. He came and his idea was to put like a bomb. He told me that I had done a good job and the people were happy and that I should keep doing this. It was like that. But, uh, Mr. Lalu Prasad would come and say, yeh bhi hona chahiye, yeh bhi hona chahiye, yaise hona chahiye. It was like that. And I felt that, uh, he was not asking me to do anything wrong. He, whatever he was telling me was like a way of advice and very down to earth advice.

AI assessment note: “He was very hands-on. He was everywhere. Earlier, I had not seen a chief minister”

Q We would love to start, you know, by your journey, right? And especially the first half of your journey before you became an IPS officer. What was growing up in Bihar back in 19 sixties like?

A Bihar in the 1960 was a very, very peaceful state, a very well administered state, and there was a lot of emphasis on education. There was a lot of safety. There was never any problem about not going out or doing things, and people were all in, the bureaucracy was very, very, Conscious of doing developmental activities, and we had almost everything. There was nothing that we were dependent on in any way on any other state. But my own childhood was a very sheltered childhood. I stayed a lot with my grandparents because my parents were busy in the village and the affairs in the village. So my growing up was extremely sheltered, but with a lot of discipline, lot of love and affection. But Everything had to be done in a particular way. If you dressed, what did you eat? With whom did you interact? There was a lot of emphasis on doing well in school and getting good grades. So, all that was very well organized by my grandparents for me and my sisters and my other cousins who were staying with him. So, uh, growing up, I don't think I was taught anything about the, uh, facing life in general, or, uh, learning any of the skills which would help me in decision making, or going out and doing things on my own. All that was not possible because everything was protected, everything was sheltered. Uh, if I ever went out, I was chaperoned. We never went for movies or restaurants, though it was…

AI assessment note: “my own childhood was a very sheltered childhood. I stayed a lot with my grandparents”

Q And you remember, was there, ah, the Bihar capital Patna was safe back then when you were growing up?

A Yes, absolutely safe. Later on, ah, people would tell me, I mean, of course, I was in the police force myself, but, ah, later on, much later on, I realized that people would not allow their, ah, wives and all to go out in the night. And one lady particularly told me that they had stopped going for wedding parties and all putting wearing jewelry, because if they stopped at a railway crossing, criminals would come and demand the jewelry. So that kind of scare was there. But by that time, I had actually left Bihar. I had moved out. So I would hear these stories. But for us, it was very peaceful. There were girls who would cycle to college and go everywhere. We were very strictly brought up, but my other friends and colleagues were allowed to do a lot of things, go to movies and parties and all, but of course, there were no mixed parties in those days in Bihar. But yes, they were more liberal, their parents were more liberal than my grandparents. So, that is the way it was in Bihar, a very peaceful and a prosperous state.

AI assessment note: “Yes, absolutely safe. Later on, ah, people would tell me”

Q And you feel that the kind of time and effort that you had to put in effort to put in, to make a policy level change in the past when you were leading on that front today?

A Oh yes, yes, yes. I definitely think that from what I see, I don't have direct experience. In the past, it would take a long time to take a decision. And, uh, in the parametric forces, we had a little more, uh, liberty to take decision because DG could Take many decisions. But if I had to go to the government of India, it would take time. And, uh, but better than in the state, definitely better than the state. In the state, it would never happen. Too much of politics going on, caste, and money, and all kinds of inhibitions in taking bold decisions. In the government of India, they would take a decision, but take a longer, longer time. And now I find that, Things are changing so fast that they are taking decisions also faster. That's what I, what I hear.

AI assessment note: “Things are changing so fast that they are taking decisions also faster.”

Q And, uh, often the media portrays that the politicians are usually corrupt and they influence the IPS officers heavily or IPS officers who don't listen to them get transferred. Does that really happen?

A I really think that this is also a choice. If you want to oblige the politician, he will keep on asking you for things. If you make it sure to them that look, I can do only this much and I will not do beyond this. Because sometimes they ask for reasonable things also. They are not always asking. So, there is no need for you to be harsh and treat them impolitely. After all, he is the representative of the people. If he is coming with some problem, you should listen to him. And if you can do something, then do it. If you can't do it, then you should have to explain to him. And I have seen a very, in my, my own experience with politicians has been that I have never been Asked to do something, uh, wrong.

AI assessment note: “my own experience with politicians has been that I have never been Asked to do something”