The Exchanges

Q Kunal, I'd like to get started with, you know, what have been the key milestones which you consider as an entrepreneur in the journey for you?

A Yeah, it's been, um, uh, it's been a long journey, um, uh, for, for me and Rohit and Uh, you know, getting started by itself is a, is a key milestone for every entrepreneur. I returned from the U S in 2007 after my H-one B visa was rejected and had the good fortune of starting the company with, uh, my closest friend from school, uh, Rohit Bansal. Um, and, and, you know, while, while the milestone of starting the company was very exciting, um, The, the first two, three years were incredibly painful, um, where we were still struggling with what our business model was, struggling with, you know, why do we, uh, you know, why do we do what we do? We're trying our different, uh, products in the couponing space. And then I would say the next big milestone for us was launching Snapdeal in February, 20 10 as a coupon site, uh, similar to Groupon. And I recall vividly that when Rohit and I were thinking about launching Snapdeal, um, we, while there was an excitement, exhilaration, nervousness of starting it, I think the big thing was, will anyone even buy anything? And our goal was that if in three months we can start doing a hundred orders a day, that would be a big success and that'd be a huge milestone. But within three weeks of launching Snapdeal, we started doing a hundred orders a day. Uh, this is a hundred coupons, a hundred vouchers a day. And that was, um, a phenomenal experienc…

AI assessment note: “the next big milestone for us was launching Snapdeal in February, 20 10”

Q Fantastic. And, you know, just, just, just to mention, you know, a couple of your, like, super breakout companies, for example, we already covered Mamart, the other, which I want to highlight, Ola Urban Clap. Uh, can you pick up one of these and talk about what got you to invest in them like really super early and how things were cut out after that? Sure.

A Maybe I'll talk about, um, you know, uh, Abhiraaj will kill me if I say urban clap. So I'll say urban company. Um, and you know, uh, Rohit and I met, uh, Abhiraaj, Varun and Raga, the, the three, uh, co-founders of urban company very, very early. I think this may have been maybe early sometime in 2015, I think more than five years ago. Uh, they were, They had just left their jobs or had returned to the US, you know, different, different, they were all in different places, and they were all considering various ideas, right, to pursue them together, but different, but various ideas. Like, for instance, they were considering putting screens at the back of seats of buses, intercity buses, right, that was one idea they were pursuing. They were also pursuing, um, uh, you know, they have been thinking about like a marketplace for services as well. And given, and by the way, this is something we do often, right? We'll just brainstorm with others, really smart, uh, entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs about, about ideas, because this is what we find exciting to do, right? It's like you're being a very small part of, uh, creation of something that may eventually touch the lives of millions of people. I mean, that's such an incredible privilege is how we see it. And so given we ourselves back then and now, uh, building a marketplace for physical products, we did believe that a marketpl…

AI assessment note: “I think what really got us to invest in them was obviously the idea had merit”

Q And Kunal, uh, you started angel investing back in 2000 11, 2012. It was not an asset class then. Hardly I could count on my fingers like 40 to 50 angel investors and only active 10 to 15 among them. You were one of them. What was the purpose of starting like, you know, back then, you know, almost a decade ago?

A Yeah, I think, um, look, uh, when we started seeing a little bit of entrepreneurial success of our own, you know, some media stories started coming about our business, about us, um, you know, entrepreneurs in general started reaching out to us for mentorship. Uh, some of them were introduced to us by, by others in the ecosystem. And, uh, a few of those discussions turned into investment discussions. So we started investing in 2011, and for a few years, it was primarily us reacting to inbounds as much as we could, right? Like whatever our time bandwidth allowed. Over a period of time, things snowballed a little bit, uh, and we realized that Rohit and I just don't have the time to screen and review the hundreds of inbound emails you are getting every month. Combination of cold reach outs by entrepreneurs, introductions by people we know, uh, venture capitalists introducing entrepreneurs who they thought were promising, but too early for them. Or maybe in some cases, companies they were investing in and they wanted us to join, join the round, which happens often. Um, so we set up a team a few years ago, which is, which is now the driving force behind Titan Capital. Um, but fundamentally, I think like Rohit and I think of ourselves as entrepreneurs, not as investors. And our motivation is to help entrepreneurs, right? And maybe that's why entrepreneurs like working with us because …

AI assessment note: “fundamentally, I think like Rohit and I think of ourselves as entrepreneurs, not as investors. And our motivation is to help entrepreneurs”

Q Kunal, uh, what has, what has changed in India since you started Snapdeal and now?

A So, you know, when we started about 13 years ago, um, startups weren't really a positive word, uh, or even a phrase that was well understood. I think most people didn't understand what a startup was. They just said, uh, this person is starting a company, right? Like they won't, they didn't say this person is doing a startup. There was a subtle difference between the two. Um, but 13 years ago when we were starting our company, uh, we were, we were seen to be strugglers, not creators. Right. And that is probably the fundamental thing that has changed in India in the last, I would say, 1012 years. Founders of startups and their teams are now seen as creators in the India of 20 20 and not people who struggle through life or adversely selected entrepreneurship as a career path because there was no better option or they didn't get a job or it was, you know, due to some, uh, adversity, et cetera. Um, this mindset of startups are the creators of this new India or the India of 20, 20 and beyond, um, is, is such an incredibly positive association with our ecosystem and all its participants, entrepreneurs, the folks who work at these companies, the investors who invest in these companies that, which you can feel around you, right? Like when someone in your family does a startup, there is There is a, uh, there is a pause of awe for that. Yeah, there is a pause of awe for that person, of po…

AI assessment note: “that is probably the fundamental thing that has changed in India in the last”

Q And this is your own company. Right? Yours and others own capital. This is not any external capital which you have, right?

A Yeah, no, no external capital. Maybe that's why we can be a bit more, uh, you know, seemingly irrational about taking outsized risks at the stage at which we invest. But someone's got to do it, right? Like, I think if our ecosystem has to grow, um, there has to be a cohort of people in the market who have the capital Have the irrational belief in the ecosystem and the entrepreneurs in the market. And, um, have the ability to help these companies to graduate to perpet, to progressively higher orbits of success and growth. And we believe that we have all of those attributes, uh, from our own learnings, mistakes, you know, successes, et cetera, that, uh, we are well placed to assist the next cohort or the next generations of entrepreneurs in our ecosystem to, to just, you know, probably enhance the probability of their success.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, no, no external capital.”

Q You almost seem to be in a state of flow as an entrepreneur, the path where you have your own right now, like very, very comfortable with, with yourself. Is that through the, or the journey of internal discovery where, which got you here?

A Yeah, I think, um, you know, I don't think I, I set out on a purposeful path to get to that point. However, having a purpose in life is also very important to keep your energy levels up, right? I think, um, what has helped us, um, you know, both me and Rohit is that, you know, we, we both shared this view, very deep rooted view that having a strong purpose in life is very important. Um, else you can get fatigued by all the burdens that are placed upon you, right? From, um, potentially your family, your friends, the environment at large, and more importantly by yourself. So, uh, at least what, you know, you talk about flow and maybe that's a good way to put it. Uh, but I, I think of it as drive, right? Like what, what, what drives me is solving interesting problems every day, thinking of interesting opportunities, interacting with incredibly smart people, uh, reading a lot. Uh, keeping my mind to, uh, mind open to new ideas. I think those are the things that drive, drive me, right? And those are the things that give, give me a purpose in life. Also, you know, I think, uh, at least in our society, I think it's changing a little bit, but I talk a lot about this, uh, and I talk about, talk a lot about it far more openly than most do, and I, I do hope others also talk about challenges and failures more, uh, openly. It's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of maturity. Um, you know, …

AI assessment note: “I don't think I, I set out on a purposeful path to get to that point.”

Q So Kunal, you are the first chick in one of the largest D to C brands, Mama Earth, right? What are the other D to C brands, you know, you have invested and what are the, some of the promising D to C brands, you know, you believe exist in India today?

A Yeah, I think the, um, you know, we obviously are fairly active investors across, uh, categories of, um, uh, you know, companies and sectors, et cetera. Uh, direct to consumer is a category that we, uh, we started investing in before it was called direct to consumer. I recall our first investment in that space was, uh, Beardo, which is a male grooming company. This is back in 2014, uh, or 15. And, you know, back then it was a company that made male grooming products and there was no tag associated to it, whether it's a direct to consumer brand or You know, new phrase around this is, uh, uh, uh, digital, digitally native, uh, uh, vertical brands. There were no, there are no tags attached to these things. We just felt there was a need, uh, you know, Virat Kohli was in Vogue and we saw in our office, all the young guys were growing beards and, um, and we almost, I mean, it was, it was a no brainer in my, in our mind. Um, and from there on, I think, Just from our learnings of obviously running our own e-commerce business, but also, uh, understanding in general that India is a highly underpenetrated market when it comes to brands. And our view was there'll be hundreds of more than a hundred million dollar each brands created over the coming, you know, 1020 years in our country. Um, consumers want newer brands, high quality brands. Brands that talk to them in their language and not t…

AI assessment note: “I recall our first investment in that space was, uh, Beardo”

Q And Kunal, now being a parent of two wonderful kids, does it affect your choices of the entrepreneurs you work with?

A I think, um, it's a great question. Um, it, it probably has a far more pervasive impact on one's life and judgment than just a choice of entrepreneurs one chooses to work with. I think that too, but not only that. I think that may be one of, um, uh, I, so I think folks may, folks sometimes ask, right? Like, uh, what changes? Like I have friends who don't have kids or are soon to have kids, and they ask, you know, Kunal, what, what changed as a, who are also entrepreneurs, right? So they asked me, Kunal, what changed after you had kids or your first kid? And I respond and say, you know, uh, ask me what didn't change, uh, not changed and everything changes. Absolutely. Everything changes how you think about the world, how you think about yourself. Uh, how do you think about the prioritization of your needs, your aspirations, your desires from your life? Um, change. Um, at least for me, uh, it has been emotionally incredibly transformational to have children. I think, um, in a way it has brought about, um, uh, a healthy level of detachment to purely, uh, you know, Purely economic outcomes or business outcomes, um, where it is, it is clear to me what my purpose in life is, and it is not only excelling in business or, uh, you know, Making money or starting businesses or investing in businesses. I think that's what I do, but that's not who I am. I think I'm very clear that I'm here t…

AI assessment note: “I think that too, but not only that.”

Q I remember you mentioned in, in one interview that Mr. Tata asked Kunal, you have been able to grow successfully. What's your growth story and growth mantra? And then you were?

A Yeah, I think it was a fascinating, um, you know, I have, I have a fairly vivid memory of that first meeting I had with him. Uh, I think it was somewhere in 20, 20 14, middle of 20 14, and it was a quite a fascinating, uh, meeting, and, you know, I was obviously extremely anxious and nervous going into that meeting, not knowing what to expect, but he was just, he's a phenomenal human being. He put, put me at ease, um, and, um, And we had a great discussion. Uh, he was not intimidating at all. Um, uh, not that he has a reputation of being intimidating, but it can be a bit overwhelming to meet, um, meet one of your biggest icons. And then, you know, post that going through our own cycles of learning, just the fact that we discovered the type of businesses we like to build was in itself a key intellectual milestone for us. Because it often takes entrepreneurs a while to figure out what type of businesses do they actually want to build versus what type of businesses Uh, they end up building or they are made to build or the market pushes them to build. I think we, it took us a while, um, to find our center of gravity, uh, as entrepreneurs, as operators, uh, to, uh, to understand, truly deeply understand and assimilate in our bloodstream that what type of businesses we like to build and what were the attributes of that type of, of those type of businesses. That was such a big milesto…

AI assessment note: “we discovered the type of businesses we like to build was in itself a key”

Q Beardo that most guys in your office were keeping, you know, well-groomed beards. Uh, you invested in MAMA based on an insight, uh, very early, what your wife shared it. She's not using Johnson. She's not using Himalayas. She's using some other Product recommended by other fellow moms. What, what, what do you attribute to having such a phenomenal, uh, you know, picker or having such insights on consumer behavior?

A You know, um, a few months ago, we had a town hall at Snapdeal and every month we have a town hall at Snapdeal where we, you know, one of our values as a company is just acute amount of transparency. And, um, and one of the questions that was asked by, um, Uh, by one of our colleagues in the open forum was that, um, you know, Rohit and Kunal, can you each say one thing that, um, uh, you really, uh, really admire about each other? And it's just, it put both of us on the spot, um, um, you know, but, uh, it was quite memorable, actually, that question, and I had mentioned my answer, I'm sure you'll ask me, so I'll, you'll ask me what was my answer, and then I'll tell you what's answer. So my answer was that I said, it's not one thing, it's two things. Um, there are actually many things, but I will limit myself to two for now. And I had said, you know, number one is, um, just Rohit's ability to go super deep in anything, right? Just parse through the layers of complexity, uh, in any problem, uh, and layers of opaqueness in any problem. And go deep into it, looking at numbers, looking at facts, um, you know, taking, giving consideration to his intuitions is truly incredible. The second thing I said is, uh, you know, Rohit's ability to stay cheerful in the toughest of situations. Um, and, um, and, and, you know, uh, anyone who knows Rohit would know that you can't sit in a conversati…

AI assessment note: “one of the questions that was asked... can you each say one thing that you really admire”

Q That's amazing. And, uh, you know, you share some of these journeys from mama to urban club, but say in 2020, when an entrepreneur reaches out to you, uh, how do you evaluate investment even before product market fit? Because all these companies, when you, you got there, the product market fit was not there.

A Yeah, I think at the earliest stages, there is very limited information available. As you know, um, there isn't one metric that usually would get us to commit. Um, but at a meta level, I'll, I'll give you a more specific answer also, but at a meta level, businesses that tend to lack focus on a singular, very sharply defined problem statement tend to be tough for us to wrap our heads around. Um, you know, we, we've invested in now over a 150 companies over the last nine years. So, uh, I can say that, you know, uh, while, uh, you know, good judgment comes from experience, uh, experience comes from bad judgment. Right? So we have made our share of bad judgments also in the past, which have given us experience, which hopefully we believe now gives us good judgment. Um, so we are look broadly sector agnostic, right? So we've invested in everything from B to C marketplaces to B to B marketplaces, to direct to consumer brands, to FinTech companies, computer vision, AI, and dozens of companies in SAS.

AI assessment note: “businesses that tend to lack focus on a singular, very sharply defined problem statement”