The Exchanges

Q But he- But that's a big, that's a big opportunity, right?

A Exactly. Exactly. So he made a rule. He mandated that everyone on his team, all the people that work the register at the UPS store, had to One time per shift comp a customer up to call it 40 dollars worth. They had to, and they had to write it when they were clocking out who they comped and why. It was like a win, win, win in the most profound of ways. A, if you're a customer, you go into a UPS store and randomly you get comped for like shipping something or copying something, it's gonna blow your mind, right? You're gonna tell that story a bunch. B, It ended up being really good for the people that worked there. Like, when you're working at a place like that, you are not accustomed to being on the receiving end of profound appreciation and enthusiasm, and yet we are all human beings. Those feelings energize all of us, and when you get them, it makes your day better, full stop. I don't care how too cool for school you present yourself as being. But third, and this is what I thought was so fascinating, and when he explained it, it made sense. Because it was good for the team, they went from having to do it to getting to do it. But they only got to do it once. So now they started engaging and getting to know everyone that came into the store so much more deeply to decide who deserved it the most. Who was having a hard day and needed something to go right? Who was having a great d…

AI assessment note: “Exactly. Exactly. So he made a rule.”

Q how, like, some chefs will, like, end up giving it back, because they play to the critics sometimes, and it kind of becomes overwhelming, overwhelming for a variety of reasons. Did you ever feel When you were, when you were building your restaurants, did you ever feel the tension of playing for critics and awards, and playing for customers, and also doing things that you just think, because they're dope?

A Yeah. Um, It was a tension that I felt more acutely earlier in my career and in our journey towards success than I did later. I think in the beginning, listen, you have to play the game a little bit. Of course Reading is. I think it's the same no matter what industry you're in. You can't get people to pay attention to you unless you've achieved some level of critical success, and that means doing the things that you aren't necessarily inclined to want to do in order to get to where you need to get. I'll give you an example. I, my first big goal was I wanted four stars in the New York Times. There's only seven restaurants in New York with four stars. We needed to get that. That was the starting point. Once you're a four-star restaurant, then you're going to be full all the time, and if you want to be the best at something, that's the first stop along the way, especially if you, well, not especially, if you are in New York. Now, when I looked at the four-star restaurants at the time, they were all in like the Upper East Side, they were all in Midtown, they were like fancy places. And so, I don't believe there should be a dress code in a restaurant. I think that you're there to invite people as they are, but we had to have a dress code. Um, we had to have, we never wore jackets required, but there was like a proper dress code, no hats, no t-shirts, whatever it was. The day we got …

AI assessment note: “It was a tension that I felt more acutely earlier in my career”

Q Did you notice that profits and revenue went up? And do you think that it was because of that?

A Yeah, I think this is the, okay, yes, profits and revenues went way up. I think the, Everyone I've ever seen embrace these philosophies have seen financial benefit, and yet there are some that are reticent to, because it's that old adage, what gets measured gets managed, and it's hard to measure the impact of these things in the short term, right? You need to be willing to commit to ideas for long enough to see them really, truly come to life, because, A, The more of an emotional connection people have to what you're doing, the more likely they are to return B. Whether it's the hot dog, or sleds, or all these different things we did. You are giving people stories to tell. And every dollar I ever spent on unreasonable hospitality was far more impactful than any dollar I ever spent on traditional marketing, because when you give them those stories to tell, what do you think they're gonna do? They're gonna tell them over and over and over again.

AI assessment note: “yes, profits and revenues went way up.”

Q And that's, that, that's the, the point of the book, and also, um, a little bit about your background. Were you at 11 Madison as uptight as, or as, like, hardcore as the show, uh, The Bear kind of made it seem? Like, do you, do you have to perform and sort of be a dick to your staff in order to make them buy into this stuff?

A Listen, I think to succeed in a restaurant as a leader, the same lessons are true When it comes to succeeding in any other business, I think the greatest leaders are those that when they walk into the room, the people that work for them, like, check themselves a little bit. They want to make sure that everything is as it's meant to be, and they smile because they're happy that person's there. Right? Like, when you, when you're a leader that acts like a dick, people are just scared of getting yelled at. When you're an attentive leader that is thoughtful in holding people accountable. People don't want to make a mistake because they don't want to let you down.

AI assessment note: “when you're a leader that acts like a dick, people are just scared”

Q Can you walk through, like, a conversation as to, uh, like a productive leader conversation that relates to holding people accountable?

A Yeah, well, first of all, yeah, I, I think too many leaders focus on wanting to be liked. The people that work for us don't need another friend. They need actually someone who's willing to step up and lead them, and if you focus on doing that consistently, they will invariably like you. It's not dissimilar to when you Try to build any sort of business. If you focus so much on making money, you're probably gonna do something mediocre. Whereas if you just focus on building something great, you're gonna end up making money. Yeah. I, I believe that the great cultures are those where feedback is normalized. And when I talk about feedback, obviously I'm talking about praise. Um, when you set crazy expectations for people on your team, you better be there to celebrate them when they meet or exceed those expectations. A, well, because it's the right thing to do. But B, because praise is addictive, and when you receive some, you want to receive more. But sometimes I fear that we focus so much on praise and think that that's the only way to build a great culture, that we forget about how Powerful criticism can be, because if praise is affirmation, criticism is investment. The people that work for you definitively are there because they want to grow and become better versions of themselves, and that means that if you aren't there to hold them accountable when they are not being the best v…

AI assessment note: “I think too many leaders focus on wanting to be liked.”

Q Okay. And how many a night were you doing? Or how many per customer, maybe?

A Well, so here's the thing. I distill unreasonable hospitality, the gestures of the, the philosophy into three categories. One size fits all, one size fits some, and then one size fits one. And I think it's important just to explain this because we'll frame the conversation. One size fits all, man, that we looked at the entire experience, every single touch point, and identified how we could make as many of them as possible just a little bit more awesome. So, I'll give you an example. The check. Right, the check. In millions of restaurants in the world, at the end of every one of those meals, someone is bringing you a bill. And yet, in spite of the fact that everyone shares that touch point, I've never seen it approached with any creativity or intention. Yeah. And it's a hard part of the meal to get right, because A, everyone gets really impatient the moment they ask for the check. If it takes you too long to give it to them, you've ruined the meal. At the same time, I can't drop it on your table before you've asked for it. Otherwise, you think I'm trying to rush you out. It's especially hard in a fine dining restaurant because those are big checks. The moment you realize how much it costs, it's a little bit harder just to love what you just had. For that reason, no innovation. But we saw that as an opportunity to do something, an overlooked touchpoint. So when I knew you were d…

AI assessment note: “I distill unreasonable hospitality, the gestures of the, the philosophy into three categories.”