The Exchanges

Q Where did you grow up? I mean, like your dad was like a, uh, I know who your dad is, and he was like, he was like a well-known academic, but where were you growing up where you, uh, were around guys who got shot and rapping?

A Well, so I grew up in Berkeley, uh, California, which, you know, kind of is either like an academic town or part of Oakland, depending on You know, where you are, and I was in the kind of more part of Oakland, Berkeley, and then, you know, I went to school in New York, uh, and so I got into rap in New York, and then Seth got shot back in the Bay Area, and he was very, very depressed because, you know, he's blind, he was only, he's a kid, you know, so I sent him these, um, DJ Red Alert, Check Chill Out mixtapes, um, you know, were tapes that I taped off the radio show, which had the, Brand new hip hop, which was, you know, really new at the time. And, uh, that kind of cheered him up. And so that's how we got into rap when we came around and we didn't succeed, but we tried real hard.

AI assessment note: “I grew up in Berkeley, uh, California”

Q Ben, do you mess around on, uh, Suno at all with AI music?

A Yeah, Suno, um, and, uh, Well, you know, 11 Labs has a model, and, ah, UDO's got a very good model, so there, there's, there's a few different really good models. Like, I feel like I could have a music career again. That's gonna be very, very interesting to me, because it, it's sort of, like, one thing that hip hop showed was, so people don't really realize this, but this is something Quincy Jones pointed out to me before he passed. He said, you know, Ben, Like hip hop started like exactly when they canceled all the music programs in schools. Like it was the same, the exact same time when people didn't learn to play instruments in schools. That's when that is exactly when hip hop began and hip hop kind of freed you as a, somebody who was like a musical talent from actually having to learn to play an instrument, uh, which, you know, and, and even for the producers, right? Like you had a drum machine, you had samples, so you could hear what you liked. And play it, but you didn't need to be a virtuoso. And that kind of opened up a world that we didn't have before. And I think AI music is kind of that on steroids.

AI assessment note: “Yeah, Suno, um, and, uh, Well, you know, 11 Labs has a model”

Q That's so cool. Yeah. That, that idea of pensions for, for, for the OGs is, is so great. What did that just come on a whim or you're just at lunch one day and you're like, why don't they, you know, how does that idea? Cause that one liner gives you the clarity, right? It gives you the clarity of where to go.

A So, so I was listening to the, um, the H to the Izzo, Jay-Z some, where he says, I'm overcharging for what they did to the cold crush. And it kind of, it's like, Who was the cold crush? And it turns out, right, it's Grandmaster Kaz, and Grandmaster Kaz wrote, um, Rapper's Delight, basically, uh, and they stole it from him. And they stole it from him so nasty that they didn't change the word. So BigBankHankraft, if I'm the G-R-A-A-N-D-R-A-R-A-N-D-M-A-S-T-E-R, that's Grandmaster Kaz. That's his, he's rapping about his name. Not Big Bang Hank. Big Bang Hank is not named Grandmaster. Why is he calling himself Grandmaster? Because he stole his fucking rhyme. And he never got paid, and he never got credit for it. And everybody in hip hop knows this. Uh, and Grandmaster Kaz, by the way, like, if you meet him, he's a star. Like, he's the coolest guy in the room. He dresses amazing. He's, like, super articulate. He can still rap like crazy today. He's 66 years old or 65, something like that. And I was like, wow, like we ought to go back and fix that. And then, you know, uh, Rakim was like on tour at these little clubs and so forth. I was like, that's Rakim. Like, how are people treating him like that? So that was the idea. Um, I was like, we ought to just do it. Um, you know, I'm like getting it set up with the IRS and all that stuff is like extremely complicated. Um, but yeah, it's bee…

AI assessment note: “I was listening to the, um, the H to the Izzo, Jay-Z”

Q You've said before, like having confrontation the right way is super important. And I nodded my head and then I was like, cool. I really don't know how to do that though. So, okay. So what is the right way to have confrontation?

A And it's complicated, but like the first thing is you got to stop thinking about yourself, right? So, you know, and it could be anything. It could be like firing somebody or getting them to change their behavior or whatever. You're, you're going to be saying something that they don't want to hear. And so I think people get caught up in, well, Either I need to be a tough guy or I need them to like me or, you know, some other thing that's about you, but really you have to go, okay, what am I going to say to them that isolates it to this thing that I'm really talking about? You know, so if I need them to change this behavior, like how do I get them to hear that in a way they can actually act on it without getting in their feelings? And, you know, in order to do that, you just have to be, like, very straightforward, and you have to be open with how you feel about it. Like, if you think they're a shitbird, then you're probably gonna have to fire them anyway, but if you think they're otherwise good, then you kind of have to Let them know that, but in a way where you're not clearly setting them up, you know, you're not giving them a shit sandwich. You're the greatest person in the world, but this is all fucked up. And I love you like that, that like people are onto that, like it's just too simple. So you kind of have to, you know, you have to get to a very honest place with them and s…

AI assessment note: “the first thing is you got to stop thinking about yourself”

Q Sort of like the Charlie Munger, like, tell me where I'm gonna die so I know not to go there, right? What would be the decisions I would make to take me off the path?

A I would say the big thing is it's almost like a lack of decision, right? Like it's a hesitation. In football, they always say like trust, you have to trust your eyes because you could be really fast, but if you don't start running when you see the thing, if you wait, then you're not fast. Um, and that's kind of what it's like for CEOs. Like you could be really, really smart, but if you wait too long before you pull the trigger, you're not smart anymore. It's too, like, and there, there's all kinds of, like, excuses people tell themselves to not make a decision. So, for example, like the, one of the, um, biggest ones on an executive, like, is, Well, if, you know, we made such a big deal when we hired him, like, what is the press gonna say? Or what are the people in the company gonna say? Or, you know, I don't have time to hire a new person to do the job that this guy's fucking up. You know, like these kinds of, there's all these reasons not to make the decision. Um, and they're all just, if you think about them for more than like, Five minutes you go, well, that doesn't make any fucking sense. Cause this guy's like fucking up the whole org. Like who gives a fuck what the press says? Like you just get rid of him, like start rebuilding now, you know, like it's not, if he's doing a bad job, like no job is better than a bad job. Like, I think we all know that and everything kind of …

AI assessment note: “I would say the big thing is it's almost like a lack of decision”

Q What age did, what, what made you calm down? Was it age? Was it kids? Was it success? Was it like, look, I've made it. Everything else is just icing on the cake. I don't care.

A Well, hey, I think it was the combination of the kids and the company, you know, the, the, the first company I founded, Lovecloud, which then became Opsware, was so difficult, um, that I never, I like in life since then, like we like we've had difficulties building the firm, whatever, but like they never got like a rise out of me that could compare to, you know, what I'd already been through. So it's almost like I, I feel like it's almost like I know guys, my friend Oliver Stone, um, was in Vietnam and like, you could tell everything about him was I'm not in Vietnam anymore. So much of his life is defined by not being a nom. And like, I do feel like I don't want to compare it to war because people always criticize me for my war metaphors, but it's kind of like that feeling where it's like, okay, I've been through that. I, I'm just looking at the world differently now.

AI assessment note: “I think it was the combination of the kids and the company”