Apr 19, 2022 · 1h 3m · knowledge-project
Sarah Jones Simmer: The Foundation of Trust
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of The Knowledge Project, Found CEO and former Bumble COO Sarah Jones Simmer shares timeless insights on scaling high-growth organizations, building intentional remote culture, and navigating severe health crises. She reveals how surviving stage three cancer and a brain aneurysm transformed her executive decision-making, operational philosophy, and definition of success.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Shane holds 17.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Shane as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 4.9 Guest disagreement 0.2 Shane pushing back 0.9
speaking balance: gold is Shane, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:01 Nuanced reframe of outgrowing scaling jobs
Sarah respectfully pushes back on the premise of employees failing to scale, reframing organizational transitions as natural career chapters rather than personal inadequacies.
Hardest push from Shane ▶ 56:48 Challenging the stigma around executive coachingShane interrupts to forcefully dispute that seeking external help should carry stigma, citing professional athletes and surgeons who use coaches to excel.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 28:10 Deconstructing calories-in calories-out dogmaSarah educates the audience and host on the complex biological, genetic, and hormonal drivers of metabolic health that render pure willpower models scientifically flawed.
Shane holds their own ▶ 22:20 Cardiac surgeon behavioral change insightShane demonstrates strong domain synthesis by citing clinical observations on how modern non-invasive surgery reduces patient impetus for long-term behavioral adaptation.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Shane as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Shane pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Current Obsession: Heavy Strength Training and Physical Resilience | 4 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Shane asks Sarah about scaling operations and setting up organizational scaffolding at Bumble. Sarah gives an in-depth breakdown of building an analytics function as a leverage multiplier and creating commercial clarity around unit economics. | |
| Creating Leverage Through T-Shaped Leaders | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Shane asks how to manage employees who fail to scale with rapid company growth. Sarah gently reframes the premise, arguing that careers happen in distinct chapters and that outgrowing or passing the baton should not be viewed as failure. | |
| Navigating Stage Three Cancer While Leading Bumble's IPO | 2 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Shane respectfully gives Sarah space to recount her stage three cancer diagnosis and decision to lead Bumble's IPO as Chief Strategy Officer. Sarah shares how narrowing her role allowed her to preserve intellectual agency through medical treatments. | |
| The Discovery of an Unruptured Brain Aneurysm | 3 | 6 | 0 | 0 | Sarah details discovering a brain aneurysm during scans and how a five-year worst-case prognosis radically clarified her personal and professional priorities. Shane listens with deep empathy as she explains establishing daily emotional reflection guardrails. | |
| The Science of Behavior Change and Productivity Hacks | 5 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Shane shares an anecdote from a cardiac surgeon about declining rates of behavioral change following minimally invasive procedures. Sarah connects this to her work at Found, highlighting how community accountability and habit hacking facilitate lasting lifestyle changes. | |
| Found's Comprehensive Approach to Weight Care and Series B Funding | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | Sarah challenges standard weight-loss industry dogmas around calories-in versus calories-out, explaining biological and hormonal factors in obesity care. Shane facilitates her detailed overview of Found's platform and oversubscribed Series B raise. | |
| Fundraising Reflections and Supporting Women Founders | 4 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Shane prompts Sarah on working with women leaders and navigating venture capital as a female founder with a medical history. Sarah outlines the systemic disparities in venture funding and emphasizes the performance benefits of diverse board perspectives. | |
| Hiring for Mission Alignment, Curiosity, and Ambiguity | 3 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Sarah describes screening for intellectual curiosity, mission conviction, and comfort with ambiguity during hiring. Shane reacts with amusement to her anecdote about an interviewee who brought a detailed critique of the product onboarding flow. | |
| Kindness Versus Niceness and Psychological Safety | 3 | 5 | 0 | 1 | Shane asks Sarah to elaborate on her core principle of kindness versus niceness. Sarah clarifies that kindness requires direct honesty and constructive challenge to sharpen colleagues rather than comfortable avoidance. | |
| Establishing Trust and Team Dynamics in Remote Environments | 4 | 4 | 0 | 1 | Shane highlights the friction between maintaining existing trust versus establishing new trust in remote work environments. Sarah agrees and explains how remote leaders must intentionally engineer vulnerability and occasional in-person touchpoints. | |
| Communication Norms, Cognitive Focus, and Long Thinking Walks | 4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Shane and Sarah examine communication channel discipline across Slack, email, and phone calls. Sarah shares how taking long four-hour walks expanded her cognitive focus beyond modern three-second attention spans. | |
| Decision-Making Frameworks: Listening, Data Rigor, and Conviction | 5 | 4 | 0 | 2 | Shane describes his method of walking around a problem multidimensionally before making major choices. Sarah explains her framework of listening deeply before stating an opinion to avoid anchoring her team prematurely. | |
| The Strategic Role of Executive Coaching | 4 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Shane challenges the lingering stigma around executive coaching by comparing it to elite sports coaching. Sarah agrees, detailing how her coach provides frameworks and serves as a vital sounding board when managing board dynamics. | |
| Online Discourse and the Value of Authentic Relationships | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Shane asks about navigating online vitriol and Sarah's core definition of success. Sarah concludes the dialogue by explaining why knowing and receiving love and finding daily joy superseded financial or status metrics. |
Statements from this episode (21)
Simmer: Bumble Operated From a Two-Bedroom Apartment With 30 Employees
“I joined Bumble in 2017. It was about 30 people in a two bedroom apartment at that point.”
Simmer: Incoming Leaders Get One Shot to Build a Trust Foundation
“Build the foundation of trust. Otherwise you're not, you can't go back and re-engineer that, right? You get one shot at the beginning of really getting people to trust you and how you're going to layer in your vision to the growth of the company.”
Simmer: Early-Stage Employees Must Flex Across Functions Instead of Siloing
“Because at those early stages, it's not about stay in your lane. It's like own accountability for your lane, but how do you flex and help the business grow?”
Simmer: Treating Careers as Chapters Eases Difficult Departure Conversations
“And I think getting to a place where as business leaders and as employees, we accept that careers are going to come in chapters gives both sides a lot more freedom to have then the harder conversations when it's necessary. There shouldn't be this pressure to s…”
Simmer: Diagnosed With Stage Three Cancer Right After Bumble's Blackstone Acquisition
“So in May of I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer. I didn't have a family history. I had no reason to suspect that I would have it, and so it was very blindsiding, and this was shortly after Bumble had been acquired by Blackstone.”
Simmer: Shifted From Operations to Strategy to Lead Bumble's IPO
“We constructed this narrower, deeper role as chief strategy officer that would enable me to go from a team of like a 150 to four or five, and that would take on transformative strategic projects across the business, and the first one would be the IPO”
Simmer: Operating With a Five-Year Horizon Clarifies Marginal Decision-Making
“The doctor was worried about metastasis, and she said, look, worst case, I can get you five years. And there's something very special about that five-year time frame. You know, if you had 30 days, you would change everything. And on the other end of the spectr…”
Simmer: Three Daily Reflection Questions Create Clear Remote Work Boundaries
“I do this exercise in the evenings where I try to ask myself, What am I blocking? What am I advancing? How did I make people feel? And when I can answer those questions, just even knowing the answers will give me permission to then move into a different phase …”
Found Raised an Unplanned and Meaningfully Oversubscribed Series B Round
“I think, as you said, we did raise the series B. We were meaningfully oversubscribed. We weren't even planning to raise”
Simmer: The Average American Gained Thirty Pounds During the Pandemic
“And by the way, the average American gained 30 pounds during the pandemic.”
Simmer: Discouragingly Little Venture Capital Flows to Female Founders and CEOs
“It is so discouraging to me that there are still so little capital that flows. To women CEOs and women founders.”
Simmer: A Candidate's Lack of Mission Alignment Is an Absolute Dealbreaker
“If all of the hard skills are there, but someone doesn't actually believe in what you're trying to do, That's a deal breaker, right? That there needs to be this belief in what you're trying to build.”
Simmer: Kind People Give Uncomfortable Feedback; Nice People Avoid Discomfort
“A kind person will tell you have spinach in your teeth and a nice person won't because it's uncomfortable, right? But the kind person is going to set you up for a much better rest of your day because you're not running around with spinach in your teeth.”
Simmer: Disagreeing With Your Manager Requires High Psychological Safety
“Especially in a relationship where potentially you disagree with your manager about something. Often the nice thing to do is be like, okay, sure. Good idea. That, that sounds good. But the kind thing to do would be to push them on their thinking and to feel em…”
Simmer: Periodic In-Person Engagement Is Crucial for Remote-First Organizations
“I think that's right, and I think that's where some periodic in-person engagement is necessary.”
Simmer: Voice Conversations Build Interpersonal Trust Much Faster Than Slack
“Voice on voice does build trust more than Slack to Slack does.”
Simmer: Found Maintains Operational Focus With Meeting-Free Flow Wednesdays
“We have a practice around flow Wednesdays, where we try to hold no meetings, or at least no recurring meetings.”
Parrish: Sticking With a Problem Longer Provides a Unique Cognitive Advantage
“Your first thoughts are rarely your best thoughts. And so the ability to stick with a problem for longer than other people, which in this case might be, you know, four seconds or four minutes offers a unique advantage and perspective, right?”
Simmer: Executives Stating Opinions Too Early Suppress Genuine Team Convictions
“One of the things that I noticed from a more tactical perspective is if I throw out an opinion too soon, Even if I'm still feeling my way around the problem, but I say like, what have you thought about it? XYZ. I find that people start. Gravitating towards you…”