Jun 6, 2025 · 37m · innovators-investors
Turning Wood Waste into Renewable Energy: How Woodchuck and AI are Revolutionizing Sustainability with Todd Thomas
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On the Innovators and Investors Podcast, Woodchuck CEO Todd Thomas discusses how his platform intercepts industrial wood waste to produce renewable biomass fuel for utilities, sharing critical perspectives on global power demands and enterprise startup execution.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
Kristian as informed peer 1.6 Guest teaching 4.2 Guest disagreement 0.4 Kristian pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Kristian, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 33:40 Todd rejects popular career platitude
Todd forcefully dismisses the common phrase 'find a job that you love and you'll never work a day in your life' as 'a load of crap,' arguing that work is inherently hard.
Hardest push from Kristian ▶ 4:37 Christian probes enterprise vs regulatory motivationsChristian presses Todd on whether enterprise clients like Amazon act out of inherent corporate values versus mandatory regulatory compliance.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 16:15 Realistic math behind global power demandsTodd educates the host on realistic global energy capacity, showing that tripling renewables and nuclear still leaves a shortfall requiring an increase in fossil fuels by 2050.
Kristian holds their own ▶ 18:13 Christian points out compute power driving demandChristian identifies that AI and compute power have surpassed simple population growth as the primary modern catalysts of energy demand.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Kristian as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Kristian pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Introducing Todd Thomas and Woodchuck | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | The host asks open foundational questions to let Todd introduce Woodchuck. Todd explains the genesis of Woodchuck and how North Star Clean Energy required biomass to prevent fossil fuel reliance. | |
| Defining Biomass and Repurposing Pallet Waste | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | The host asks for the definition of biomass and tests his understanding about lumber mill offcuts. Todd educates on photosynthetic carbon capture, landfill composition, and the massive waste of single-use wooden pallets. | |
| Early Project Success and Carbon Reporting | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | The host asks about Amazon's motivations regarding regulations versus corporate DNA. Todd clarifies that customer pressure drives enterprise waste reduction and explains how granular carbon reporting creates client value. | |
| Todd Thomas's Serial AI Entrepreneurship Background | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | The host asks Todd about his background leading to founding Woodchuck. Todd recounts his previous AI ventures at Stanley Black & Decker and Aiden Auto. | |
| Startup Execution and Solving Genuine Problems | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | The host inquires about when a startup should pivot. Todd provides clear rules of thumb on starting with paid customer problems rather than cool tech in search of buyers. | |
| Unleashing Abundant Energy and Global Demand Realities | 1 | 6 | 1 | 0 | The host prompts Todd to talk about his book. Todd details global energy statistics, explaining that even tripling renewables and nuclear by 2050 still leaves a deficit requiring expanded fossil fuel usage. | |
| The Structural Drivers Behind Surging Power Needs | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | The host notes compute power as a primary driver of energy demand. Todd validates that while expanding on the electrification of everything and infrastructure bottlenecks like EV supercharging lines. | |
| Defining the Ideal Customer Profile for Waste Diversion | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | The host asks about defining customer profiles and managing sales cycles. Todd describes learning that pallet waste makes almost any large manufacturer or supplier an ideal client. | |
| Grand Rapids Processing Facility and Scaling Strategy | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | The host asks about international expansion and scaling pitfalls. Todd details permitting challenges across multiple municipal jurisdictions for their Grand Rapids facility and the necessity of aligning startup speed with enterprise clients. | |
| Choosing Enterprise Clients Over Regional Builders | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | The host asks why Woodchuck did not pursue smaller regional builders for quick early wins. Todd explains that smaller builders lack interest in compliance reporting and outlines why CEOs must constantly fundraise. | |
| Core Internal Operational Metrics for Woodchuck | 1 | 4 | 2 | 0 | Todd candidly rejects the popular aphorism to 'find a job you love and never work a day in your life,' calling it 'a load of crap' and advising pragmatic realism. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Thomas: North Star Clean Energy lacks biomass feedstock for three Michigan plants
“They have three energy facilities in the state of Michigan that have the potential to burn biomass to produce renewable energy, but they don't have enough biomass right now. So they're forced to use fossil fuels to generate all the electricity that the state o…”
North Star Clean Energy must double production to meet Michigan energy demand
“Over the next 10 years, they think they're going to need to double their energy production in order to keep up with the growing energy demand of the state of Michigan.”
Thomas: US landfills are 30% to 40% wood by volume
“US landfills are about 30 to 40% wood by volume.”
Thomas: Most wooden pallets are discarded as single-use items
“Wood pallets, theoretically, are, Multi-use items. Like you can, you should be able to use a pallet two, three, four times, but the reality is most of the time they're treated as single use items and they end up in the landfills. I mean, literally tens of thou…”
Woodchuck diverted 99% of wood waste at an Amazon distribution center
“At the end of the project, we had diverted 99% of their wood, so it was a huge success.”
Thomas: Validated waste and carbon tracking provides core enterprise value
“The other missing piece is Not just actually divert waste, but be able to track it and report it. So you can give a validated report to your client at the end of the project and say, you know, this is how many tens of tons of wood we diverted and how many tons…”
Thomas: Global energy demand will reach 52,000 terawatts by 2050
“Globally, right now, today, globally, we produce about 27,000 terawatts of energy. By the year, twenty-fifty, in order to meet the growing energy demand, we're gonna need to get to 52,000 terawatts of energy.”
Thomas: Tripling renewables and nuclear cannot meet 2050 global energy demand
“If we could wave a magic wand and triple our output of all of our renewables, And include nuclear in there. Triple all of that. That doesn't get us to 52,000 terawatts. You still need fossil fuel. You still need oil. You still need coal. And in fact, we're goi…”
Thomas: California's Charging Infrastructure Cannot Support Its Existing EVs
“California buys a lot of EV vehicles. The local infrastructure doesn't support the cars that are there. It's really hard to charge your car easily.”
Thomas: EVs Powered by Coal Plants Are Effectively Coal-Fired Cars
“If you are charging your car with energy produced from a coal plant, you've actually got a coal fired car there, right? If you're charging your car from the solar units on top of your house, and you're charging it your own garage, well, then you've got a truly…”
Thomas: Manufacturing factories generate massive wood waste from shipping pallets
“Everything that comes to your factory and everything that leaves your factory comes on wooden pallets. So even if you're in the auto industry and everything your construction is made out of metal and plastic you're still generating a massive amount of wood was…”
Thomas: Woodchuck throttled multi-year growth plans due to enterprise client pacing
“You think you can move really fast, but when your clients are really large enterprises at some point, your speeds have to come to the same speed. And so startups need to keep that in mind. So as we look at our growth trajectory over the next couple of years, w…”
Thomas: Small builders lack appetite for meticulous tracking and reporting
“We have also found that those smaller guys or regional guys, they don't have the same appetite for the really meticulous tracking, reporting, and validation of what you're doing. And that's a big part of Woodchuck's differentiation our ability to track all of …”
Northstar Clean Energy was Woodchuck's initial investor and biggest biomass customer
“When we first launched Woodchuck, our initial investor was Northstar Clean Energy, the company that I mentioned. So we launched with an investment directly from Northstar Clean Energy and they immediately became our biggest client, buying all of the biomass th…”