The Exchanges

Q Very cool. Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit about Tandem PV as a company. Can you say a little bit about sort of the origin story of the company and, uh, and how the company has evolved over the years and when you came on board?

A Yeah, sure. So Tandem PV was started by our co-founders Colin Bailey and Chris Iberschbacher. They're both PhDs in material science and applied physics. Between the two of them, they've over 50 years of experience. Uh, they met at Stanford when Colin was getting his doctorate. Um, and that is where Colin made the world's first perovskite silicon tandem cell. And so people ask us, like, you know, what's your secret? How did you, how did you figure this out? And Colin always says, I don't know what the secret is. I've just been working on it longer than anyone else. So, so when he left Stanford, um, there wasn't Many, no one was really working on perovskites in a commercial way, and so we start, he started Tandem PV. So this June will mark 10 years of the company's existence. Um, and we've been a purely R&D company for about that long. Um, and this is, you know, what the team is doing is really hard. It's incredibly cross-functional, right? So it's chemistry, applied physics, engineering, material science, and it just, deep tech takes a long time. Um, But about three years ago is when we started kind of transitioning into commercialization, so we brought on Scott Wharton, our CEO, um, who, this is his fifth scale-up and startup, um, and then I joined, uh, almost two years ago now to really lead the company into this kind of next chapter of commercialization and scale-up, which is…

AI assessment note: “then I joined, uh, almost two years ago now to really lead the company”

Q is the foundation for being able to move forward into this first-of-a-kind moment. Um, so, you've already mentioned degradation. Can you talk a little bit about, like, who are Tandem PV's customers, and what are some of the things that they are thinking about as their key performance indicators around, you know, is it efficiency? Is it degradation? What are the things that they're looking for in a solar panel?

A Yeah, so, I mean, conventional knowledge would say, okay, higher efficiency solar panels, you can capture the highest margin from space-constrained areas. So, You know, rooftop solar, carports, community solar, and, you know, utility scale solar is, like, the least exciting. Um, initially, sure, but you also, when you step back and look at the entire kind of pie, utility scale solar is 80% of the market, right? And each of the large utility scale solar developers do anywhere from half a gig to a couple gigs a year, right? So if you're talking about scaling quickly, You really only need a handful of these customers to lean in with you. Um, they also tend to be super sophisticated, right? So they can look at a new technology, have, like, the deep technical expertise to evaluate the technology, get comfortable with it, and it doesn't just stop there. They're financiers, so their solar tax equity and project finance, um, partners are also sophisticated, right? And so from the perspective of Who can actually evaluate and get comfortable? It's utility scale developers. Um, and then, you know, when we're, when you think about our technology compared to silicon, it's like a 30% improvement. When you think about it in compared to cad tell, it's a 50% improvement. When you have such a massive step change in efficiency, every application of solar is in play. So for our utility scale devel…

AI assessment note: “utility scale solar is 80% of the market... who can actually evaluate and get comfortable? It's utility scale developers.”

Q just said is wild, that you got a hundred percent equipment financing, and obviously, you know, that was one of the reasons that we were really excited about supporting your Series A, was to enable you all to unlock that, but can you say a bit more about how the equipment financing works, and why you were able to get so much of it as effectively an earlier stage startup?

A Um, I mean, it is, It's backed by the asset, right? And so I think, like I said, a big part of it is that the equipment wasn't bespoke, right? This is standard thin film equipment, um, that the lenders felt that, you know, had intrinsic value if we weren't able to repay it. But also, all of our lenders have worked with Eclipse, right? Eclipse has so many manufacturing companies in their portfolio, um, And they know, lenders know that Eclipse is not gonna turn the lights off here, right? So, um, they know that, you know, Eclipse will do their, you know, follow on and pro rata. Um, and I think that was a big part of it. So, I think I've told you this story before, but I did, I had one, uh, climate investor that told me I was lying to him. And so, like, there's no way you can get a hundred percent, a hundred percent equipment financing. I tried to help my portfolio companies with that, and I couldn't do it. So, There's no way you can do it. And I was like, well, you could see the term sheets if you want to, but we did it.

AI assessment note: “It's backed by the asset... a big part of it is that the equipment wasn't bespoke”

Q you can say a bit, really, about what's been going on from a federal policy perspective, and which pieces of this you're tracking, and whether there have been any elements of what's happening, particularly with respect to tariffs and some of the things that, um, that, you know, kind of go into the tax credits. Anything that has been a particularly strong headwind or tailwind that you've had to overcome?

A Um, you know, now that it's kind of Settled and behind us, I would say for us, it was majority noise, but in the moment, it created a lot of stress, and so first, like on the tariffs, you know, there was a lot of tariffs, and then there was no tariffs, and then there were a lot of tariffs again, and then ultimately we saw that we actually can get our equipment through an exemption because we were, it was semiconductor equipment, so that was great. Um, on the tax credits, um, There's a couple different tax credits that impact us. The key one for us is 45 X. That's the advanced clean manufacturing tax credit. Um, that stayed wholly intact and arguably is even stronger now because initially it was not bipartisan support and it was basically reconfirmed and, you know, retained in OB three. Um, and so 45 X, um, is still here. Um, and then the solar investment tax credit, that was the one that, You know, was shortened. Um, but all of our customers, uh, utility-scale customers were able to successfully safe harbor, like, gigawatts worth of project pipeline, and so the investment tax credit for all of our customers is still intact through mid- twenty-thirty. Um, and now there's lots of talk about extending the ITC, and depending on who you ask and on what day, people think that will be extended, so, so who knows? Either way, I think we are pretty Um, I don't know, future proof in terms…

AI assessment note: “The key one for us is 45 X. That's the advanced clean manufacturing”

Q So can you say a bit about where that stands and what you know about degradation of tandem PV's panels?

A Yeah. So, you know, so back in, you know, 2009 through, you know, early 20 tens, when scientists first kind of got perovskites to convert to sunlight, um, I think they degraded within minutes. And you've got some folks that saw that and were like, perovskites will never work. And others that were like, this is amazing. This is going to be the future, and it will be incredible when scientists figure this out, right? And so we've been incredibly focused on durability since day one. Um, for the last few years, we've been making 10,000 panels a year, testing those in our indoor accelerated labs and also external testing, um, And, you know, we're there on our kind of R&D, uh, format where we're able to, you know, we had a module outdoors for 18 months with no perceptible degradation, and that was several technology generations ago, and our durability has now improved 10 X since then. Um, and that's really why, you know, the foundation of the Series A and building this demonstration factory was because we've kind of gotten where we needed to Go with R&D in terms of efficiency and durability, and the next step now is to make it bigger and do outdoor, you know, get that outdoor field trials on that, and then we get to commercial scale. So, you know, there's, though, there's only so much you can say, trust me, and the accelerated testing points to that. You got to get the panels outside…

AI assessment note: “we had a module outdoors for 18 months with no perceptible degradation”

Q into our, your and my favorite subject in a second here, which is how you have financed this work. Um, but before we get there, one other question, which is, did you all entertain, was it even possible to consider something where you would do contract manufacturing effectively for the sort of full quarter size panel, or was it always really clear that you needed to manufacture on your own?

A Well, we're doing a little bit of a hybrid. So we're doing the thin film on our own in-house, right? So if you look at our factory, it's all, you know, off the shelf thin film equipment. And contract manufacturing, like, first of all, at these volumes, it's not terribly interesting for a contract manufacturer. And also, you know, we do quite literally have a secret sauce that is our perovskite ink. But more than that, it's, there's so much IP and trade secrets in how we turn that perovskite ink into Into a solar panel. There's so many steps. There's like, 15 to 18 steps that are very, very specific, um, in terms of thickness and temperature and, and whatnot. And so by the time you teach a contract manufacturer all of that, you've now just kind of shared that IP. So we're doing the thin film in-house, and then we're driving the panels down the street a few miles, uh, to a contract manufacturer for the final kind of stringing and assembly with the silicon bottom cell.

AI assessment note: “Well, we're doing a little bit of a hybrid.”

Q Okay, so you secured funding for, from your Series A, you've got your first manufacturing facility. How did it go, building this manufacturing facility, and what kinds of lessons learned do you have around what it takes to build this, even once you've secured the financing?

A Yeah, I think, gosh, um, a really, really experienced and level-headed team, I'd say, is the first one, right? Because there's going to be so many ups and downs. Um, you know, our CEO Has, you know, decades of experience here. This is his fifth scale-up startup. When he left Logitech, he was, you know, he, he was running a two billion dollar global manufacturing business, right, and had launched a hundred or 200 products, and, um, and then our head of manufacturing has decades of solar manufacturing experience in thin film and, and silicon, um, and then also our co-founders, you know, Chris and Colin, decades of solar manufacturing experience, and so that's, Super important. Um, our head of ops also had, um, you know, turned up many, you know, many factories, and the team just worked really well together. There's just a lot of expertise, a lot of trust, um, and then just moving really quickly. I mean, even just, um, you know, how we even got this factory was, was kind of a, uh, an anecdote there where, you You know, Silicon Valley startups, or any startups, have to move quickly because we just, we just have to. Um, we heard about this facility, which is a former EnerVenue facility, and we heard that it came online, and we knew it would be perfect for us, and we showed up, like, that afternoon, made an offer before it even went on the market, right? So I think having, you know, …

AI assessment note: “a really, really experienced and level-headed team, I'd say, is the first one”

Q of the things that can be really challenging for companies as they're growing is to figure out, like, what is that moment when you kind of take the leap and build that big First commercial project. So were there internal milestones? Were there certain things that you were looking for as a company before making that decision to build that manufacturing line? What led to the decision to move forward?

A I think it was, you know, the industry was saying that, you know, perovskite tans would have to be at minimum 26% in order for the industry to be excited about it. Um, and then, yeah, on the durability. So we kicked off that series A basically when we Had those two metrics, um, in accelerated testing and, and efficiency on our R&D panels. And that's kind of what led us to saying, okay, the next step now is to make these bigger and show the world that we can make them bigger and put the bigger panels outside and show the world that they will, you know, last for, you know, that initial 12 to 18 months so we can get that bankability report. So we're just kind of very, um, With quite a lot of discipline, just taking those steps one step at a time.

AI assessment note: “we kicked off that series A basically when we Had those two metrics”

Q And can you maybe position perovskites more generally in the solar universe? So, I think the vast majority of Solar deployments today are still traditional silicon PV panels, but would you say that the sort of perovskite world is in its early commercialization days, or are we starting to see real perovskite deployments yet? Where do you think we are in terms of whether the future of perovskites has arrived?

A Yeah, so, um, I mean, yes, the majority of solar panels are silicon, right? And then you've also, in the U.S., have cadmium telluride through First Solar. Um, but silicon is now It's like a couple years from being at its peak, right? So your average silicon panel here in the U.S. is 23% efficient. It'll probably get to 25% in the next couple years, and that's it. Like, that's the max that a silicon solar panel will go. Um, whereas cadmium telluride, your median efficiency for cadmium telluride is 19%. Um, take that into the context of a recent announcement that we just made, which is that we've now crossed 30% efficiency On a solar panel, right? And that is significantly more than where silicon can ever go, um, and 50% more than, than cad-tow. So, and we're just at the beginning. So with the perovskite, you layer it onto silicon, right? Silicon is the most studied material in the world. It works great, but it doesn't capture the entire, you know, wavelength of the sun. If you layer perovskite on top of it, they're working together. They're complementary. So you get You know, in our case, over 20% efficiency from just the single junction perovskite, and that sits on top of silicon, and the infrared and red light passes through. Silicon gives you another eight percent efficiency, and now you're at a 30% efficiency panel. But this technology of perovskite and silicon can get up to…

AI assessment note: “we're on this new curve now with kind of entering this new decade”

Q with two different investment teams, and both times I basically had a Team that looked across a whole bunch of different solar companies and said no, no, no, no, no to every solar company and then came across Tandem PV and said yes. So can you say a little bit about what you think makes Tandem PV special and what makes it stand out in a field of solar companies?

A Yeah, it's funny. My story of coming to Tandem PV is not too much different. Um, I met Tandem through my brother because, cause Scott, our CEO and my brother are friends, And when Scott left Logitech after a really incredible career there for almost a decade, um, he asked his friends to invest in a safe round at Tandem, and my brother said, I have not been following Solar for a while, but if my sister tells me to, to invest, I will. And so my brother called me and said, can you talk to my friend Scott? He's working at a perovskite company now. I said, no, I'm not, not going to talk to him. And he's like, what? Why? And I'm like, because Perovskites, like, I don't know. Every perovskite company I've looked at has just not been compelling, and I think they're kind of a joke. So, so then, uh, so then, uh, my brother was like, well, tell me more. And I, you know, I was like, well, I'm not interested in, in solar cells for handheld calculators and, you know, mobile devices. And he said, no, no, they're doing utility-scale solar. And so that's when I said, okay, this is now interesting. Let me talk to him. Um, and I think what, what really sets Tandem PV apart is not just, like, our focus on efficiency, but also durability and manufacturability. So, like, since day one, the team has been focused on, you know, the end goal, which is commercial scale, manufacturability, utility scale s…

AI assessment note: “what really sets Tandem PV apart is not just, like, our focus on efficiency”

Q Can you say a bit more about your transition from a sister who's advising brother, okay, actually, maybe go ahead and invest And this one to then joining the company, and what are the skills that you're bringing to the table here?

A I think I even forgot to update my brother. I was just, like, so excited about it. I mean, I first joined as an advisor for six months because I think when we first started chatting, tandems of panel efficiency was like, 24%, and I was like, well, okay, well, silicon panels are 23%, and for anyone to pay attention to this and take the risk on a new technology, it needs to be materially better, like, needs to be worth it. And then three months later, Scott texts me, and he's like, hey, we're at 25% now. And I'm like, oh, better. Still not, still not interested. Another three months, he's like, hey, we're at 26%, and our accelerated testing shows, you know, less than one percent annual degradation for over two decades. And I'm like, send me an offer letter. And then, uh, you know, two years later, we just crossed 30%. So, um, and Sorry to answer your initial question.

AI assessment note: “I first joined as an advisor for six months because I think when we first”