The Exchanges

Q Well, so let's, let's start talking a little bit about the technology solution here, because you've already described a solar-related technology that's different than the one that you're currently working on today. So what did you learn early on that made you ultimately pivot from this solar ranking cycle?

A Yeah, so when we discovered this problem of chilling milk at the village level, we knew that this engine made out of car parts wasn't going to do it. So Serene and I created a for-profit called Promethean Power, and we started to focus on thermoelectrics. We thought we could use Solar powered, uh, running thermoelectric chips to chill milk, and we found some innovative ways, but we just weren't getting enough cooling. Then we pivoted to making ice and using a solar panel to run a pump to pump that ice water up the stainless steel dome that would instantly chill that milk. But again, we weren't getting enough capacity, and the logistics We're just crazy. We spent a year in Goa working with Goa Dairy to try to make this solution work, but ultimately we got rid of solar and we spent the next year figuring out how to improve this thermal battery and reduce the size and get more out of that battery, and in real time we're working with professors and students from Olin College to try to find the perfect nucleating agent to make this ice And a year later, we go from a thousand liter tank chilling 500 liters to a 500 liter tank chilling a thousand liters of milk. 300% increase in efficiency. And that's what we went to market with.

AI assessment note: “we knew that this engine made out of car parts wasn't going to do it”

Q So what are your plans for expansion beyond that? Do you have ideas on other countries for which this technology is relevant, or even other technology spaces or applications that could benefit from what you've built?

A Yeah, um, so we've already started chilling fruits and vegetables with this unit. We're working in Bangladesh and potentially Pakistan, but it's not for every region, because if you have no electricity, it just... Adds too much cost to, to put four kilowatts of solar. It's just not economically viable to, to do that. So we're really constrained to areas that have limited electricity. But in India alone, you know, the 230,000 milk producing villages will keep us busy enough. There's also a really interesting application for our technology, potentially for These new data centers that are so power hungry, where 80% of the power that they use comes from cooling, and our battery seems to be really a good fit for providing some flexibility for the grid, because each of our batteries has about 190 BTUs, or 200 megajoules, and so two of our batteries can provide an hour's worth of cooling, and in a place like Texas, Where the delta of time of use is so big, that could have both an economic impact for the data centers, but also provide some flexibilities for the grid.

AI assessment note: “We're working in Bangladesh and potentially Pakistan... also a really interesting application for our technology”

Q goes beyond just the benefits of having chilled milk and being able to More healthfully feed a population. So I know that you've had some other kinds of challenges in India, too. So for all of the excitement around the farmers, for example, you've also dealt with some volatility in the dairy market and with the issue of copycats. So how have you handled some of those kinds of challenges?

A Yeah, it's interesting with that, with the copycats. At the beginning, when we just had the idea of a technology, we were so nervous about Copycats and, and even with a patent, you know, in India, the culture is, there's nothing wrong with stealing someone's technology. It's just the way it is. So after years of, of working there, we just accepted the fact that eventually this would be copied and just started to focus on, well, They may be able to copy parts of our technology, but if we continue to lead on reducing the costs, We didn't think people could catch up to that extent if we kept on, on focusing on reducing costs and improving efficiency. And the business model that we went out with of selling equipment became a big challenge because you would wait for that next order, and it was, it was very hard to plan, and you would get an order, and you'd get a big drop in The price of milk, and they'd cancel the order. So we, we'd go through some dry spells with, you know, a lot of the equipment sales. Um, so we felt like we, we needed to do something different other than just sell the equipment. Uh, so we started, uh, long-term leasing contracts, uh, where we went from, You know, getting an order and installing in four months to a dairy calling us saying, you know, we need chillers in these five villages and installing them in three weeks. And that, that, that was good, but we s…

AI assessment note: “if we continue to lead on reducing the costs, We didn't think people could catch up”

Q That's so great. So where are you today? How many systems have you installed, and what are you up to over the next six months?

A Today there are about a 100,000 farmers accessing our technology. This is just over 3000 villages that have our equipment, um, and so these farmers are tripling their income while eliminating diesel pollution and providing high quality milk and nutrients to, to consumers. And when You're a farmer and you're only making 150 dollars a month. Tripling that makes a real impact on, on their livelihoods. And so, because we're putting equipment in at our own cost, the faster we grow and scale, the more money we're going to be spending. And so, with a five million dollar investment over the next two years, we'll be installed at A thousand villages serving about 30,000 farmers, and in five years we expect to be in 4000 villages impacting about a 120,000 farmers.

AI assessment note: “Today there are about a 100,000 farmers accessing our technology. This is just over 3000 villages”

Q time. Um, but the fact that you all are focused on a problem that is really meaningful for these folks in a way that really uplifts entire communities is Thoughtable and very cool. Is there any specific learning that you can share that would help other climate companies on their scaling journey, or anything specific you can think of that you would have done differently, knowing what you know now?

A You know, this story could have turned out very differently. My, my business partner and I started this company to be a solar company, and that didn't work out. And on the way to that sort of painful realization that We weren't going to be who we thought we were going to be. We ended up following a trail of innovations and discoveries That ultimately led to a technology that would resolve a big problem, a problem we didn't know existed before we got started. I can tell you one thing for, for certain. If we hadn't spent the grueling hours applying these experiments in real world conditions in rural India, we would never have gotten the technology out of the lab and into the village. And, and so, To answer more specifically, what are some of the, the learnings that, that came out of this? A lot of it was luck. You know, we got lucky finding the problem from the managing director of Bangalore Dairy. We got lucky in finding this bellwether company and this bellwether person, Mr. Chandramoghan, investing in us, ah, and, and making sure that we were successful. But it was looking for luck. It was actively Reaching out to the market and finding that luck.

AI assessment note: “If we hadn't spent the grueling hours applying these experiments in real world conditions”

Q Very cool. And so explain now what's different about all of this. So these chillers then exist at the village level, is that right? So that before they get shipped into kind of these central distribution centers, they're chilled, whereas they weren't before.

A Exactly. So we installed the 50 units, but we wanted to make further improvements and, and, and have more of a cost competitive advantage. So we, we tried putting plastic around This milk chiller in stainless steel inside, and it was something quite novel, and it reduced the cost, but three months later, that plastic started to warp. Flies started to get into the, the milk, and it was a, a big learning lesson in trying to do things too differently, and not listening to what the customers wanted. I did the first installation in parallel. Serene did the, the second Installation of these first 50 units. And in Serene's case, When they installed the, the chiller unit in the shed, the system just wasn't turning on. They flipped the switch, and the compressor started vibrating, and that night, they were trying to fix the compressor, the chiller unit. The next day, they come in. More farmers are gathering around. They flip the switch. Again, the vibrator isn't just shaking violently, and now we're under some pressure because Mr. Chandramogan is Going to be coming to visit in the third day. Same thing, but more farmers are gathering around. That night, they realized that the distribution wire going from the distribution pole wasn't letting enough current in because the wire was so thin. So, these guys know what they're doing with distribution wires because one of the main reasons why y…

AI assessment note: “Exactly. So we installed the 50 units, but we wanted to make further improvements”