The Exchanges

Q All right, so let's say a bit more about your first demonstration, if you could call it that, where you're working with a snowmaking expert in Wisconsin. How did you find this person, and what ultimately did you do in the context of that demonstration?

A Yeah, I'll tell you. So I knew no one in the ski industry before we started Supercool. I knew a lot of skiers, including myself. I love to ski, but I'm kind of bad at it, and so I started by What anyone would do, emailing people, and that got me absolutely nowhere, and so no one was writing back to my emails, and so then I explored other ways to, to reach people, and one of those was Facebook, so Brandon and I, my boy Brandon, we met on Facebook, and there's a, there's a really active community of snowmakers on Facebook, and so I called Facebook, messaged him, and bless his heart, he wrote me back, and the two of us really just vibed on How amazing it is to make snow, and new technology around snowmaking is obviously needed today, and he's the one who did our trial in Wisconsin. He did it in his backyard, and we sent him a, you can buy backyard snowmaking guns to, you know, if you want to winter wonderland, you can have that if you buy some backyard snowmaking guns online and hook them up to your water hose, and so that's what we got him, was a backyard snowmaking gun that are less pressure than the ones on ski resorts, but still Do the same function, and he did a test where at first he was running the gun with just air and water, and that was making rain, and then he added our product, which would then allow for, for snow to be made under those same conditions, and, um, he too…

AI assessment note: “we met on Facebook... he did a test where at first he was running the gun”

Q This is great. Okay, so we mentioned at the top of the show that ski resorts and making snow for skiing is a solid, high-margin beachhead market for you all, but you have your sights on something much bigger, so what else do you think is possible with this technology?

A The amazing thing about cloud seeding is that it can be applied anywhere that needs water, so there are lots of different markets that we can go into. The main A thing that we have to think about for us, though, is to be focused. So that, that's, that's the most important part, and to be able to align the development of the technology with the markets that we're going after. And so, yes, of course, ski resorts is a great beachhead market. We're also targeting water districts and hydropower, because that makes a lot of sense. That's where a lot of cloud seeding is done in, in the U.S. today, that is silver iodide based. So we would, there's already existing customers in that space. And then our expansion is truly into ag. So our biological can target warmer clouds, which are, are where the ag fields are, so that we can, we can access ag versus any silver iodide-based cloud seeding. So ag is, um, our, our sort of big expansion market that we're going after, and there's lots of demand. As you would imagine, like, you can connect the dots, right? Growers want rain. We can deliver rain. And so it's more about us finding What that wedge is in ag. I used to work in ag, and so I'm very familiar with growers and, and them as customers, and what's important for us is to be able to find a partner and a wedge for us to be able to deploy an ag where it makes a lot of sense, and we're doing,…

AI assessment note: “We're also targeting water districts and hydropower... And then our expansion is truly into ag.”

Q Okay, well, so let's move into talking about environmental impacts. This is a good segue. So what is different about proteins compared to silver iodide and how they ultimately survive or not in the environment?

A Yeah, proteins are great because they, so, you know, one distinction, too, is that our formulation is protein only. It doesn't contain any bacteria or anything or fungal cells in it, and so proteins are made by microbes, and they, in order to persist in the environment, the proteins need the microbes around to be able to, like, continue making them, but because our formulation is protein only, it gets delivered into clouds, and once it falls, there's precipitation, it decomposes in the soil because other microbes eat it, or there's Chemical processes that occur in the, in the soil that degrade the proteins. Whereas silver iodide is a metal, and it does not degrade in the environment. So it, ah, it sticks around, and it's bad for humans, for microbes, and for fish. And it's not something that will, that will go away once you release it down into the environment.

AI assessment note: “Whereas silver iodide is a metal, and it does not degrade in the environment.”

Q are relatively high margins. So can you say a bit about your journey to get there? Maybe talk a little bit about what happens now, like, what goes on in a Ski gun at a ski resort. Like, are there other additives that go in that try to make this snow, and what is the specific thing that you're changing about this process, and how's this all gonna play out?

A Yeah, so there's one main product that exists that's called Snowmax, and that product has existed since the eighties, and it, our, the main differentiator between our product and Snowmax is that our product contains no bacterial cells in it, so Snowmax is the mixture of bacterial cells that are dead, and also these isonucleating proteins, and our product is only pure protein, and that allows us to have a better formulation than Snowmax, which is something that the ski resort operators really care about. We did a fair amount of Customer interviews and discovery as we were developing this product because we wanted to make something that people would buy, and so check formulation was one of those, and so we're able to deliver on a better formulation, and then the other piece is cost, so the ski resort operators were very much miffed about how expensive Snowmax is, and because of our application rate, we can sell it for 20% cheaper than Snowmax to drive adoption. So we're, you know, essentially we're eating their lunch, and we're able to make this product that's protein only, and that is also more compatible with the environment where you're not putting all other dead cells, you're not putting cells out there, and it's just this protein that when it gets sprayed onto the snow, it freezes and makes ice, and then it gets decomposed. It goes away very quickly within minutes or days in…

AI assessment note: “the main differentiator between our product and Snowmax is that our product contains no bacterial cells”

Q one question about the formulation. So you said it was really important to them that you had a formulation that was probably as good or better as what Snowmax offered. So what does that mean? Like, were they looking for snow fluffiness, or how easy it is to disperse, or the temperature at which it can disperse? What are the sort of dimensions on which you're improving over existing products?

A They were looking for two main things. One is the no smell. Snowmax is a little stinky. Yeah, we got it in the lab. We have it in the lab. In the lab, we have it in small volumes, and at some ski resorts, they have a lot of it, liters upon liters upon liters of it, and it gets, it gets stinky, and I have smelled it in the pump houses at some of these ski resorts that I've been at. So smell was one, that our product has no smell, and the other one was temperature storage. So Snowmaxing needs to be stored cold, and that's a pain in the butt for them, because they don't want to have to keep freezers around and store it cold, and also Snowmax doesn't last very much. You usually have to buy batches for that season, and it doesn't last season to season, whereas our protein, it's a dried protein formulation, and it can, it's stable at room temperature, and it can last season to season.

AI assessment note: “They were looking for two main things. One is the no smell.”

Q That makes sense. And so what's the regulatory environment like for this? Maybe we can start with the snowpack side of things. Like, are there already regulations that govern the use of, say, proteins in snowpack formation? Are there certain permits that you need in order to operate?

A Yeah, so our main regulatory body is through the EPA, and because of, there's two reasons why we decided to not engineer the proteins as much as Michelle and I are engineers, and we would have loved to. Regulatory and speed are two of the main reasons we decided to just go with natural proteins and not do any type of engineering. So because our proteins are not engineered, we can go through EPA, TSCA regulation, and that is relatively quick over several months. Approval process. If we were to engineer them, and they would be GMOs, it's a different conversation entirely. Plus, it takes a long, long time to engineer protein. So for us, the regulatory landscape is quite simple, because it is just a natural protein that we are making, and we're, we're going through regulatory process right now in New Zealand, and my understanding is very, very straightforward there. And then in terms of the weather modification, that's the other piece of it, is that There are nine states in the US that already have weather modification infrastructure, and so we are able to essentially plug in, plug it, plug into that, and the other piece is the FAA regulations as well. So we have, we will be using drones for our cloud seeding, and there are some waivers that we will need through the FAA, but those we can get, and we've got some consultants in that space that are helping us navigate The FAA. We don'…

AI assessment note: “our main regulatory body is through the EPA... we can go through EPA, TSCA regulation”

Q them were using algae to make biofuel. And there were a lot of big failures, and a lot of investors lost a lot of money. So can you say a bit about how you think of yourselves and how you position yourself within the investor community? Like, are you really focused on biotech? Are you also focused on climate? What's the receptivity been for climate investors and what you're doing?

A Yeah, so our company is unique because we span lots of different areas. So we span bio, climate, ag, deep tech, um, and, and so we, we can, We were kind of at the intersection of all of these different areas, and the way that I see it is that biotech, you're right, it has been burned before. Lots of investors have lost a lot of money. But there have been a lot of people in these companies that have learned a fair amount living these, ah, the, the sort of, like, the problems that occurred in biotech. And what's really cool that's happening right now is a lot of these folks, in addition to Michelle and I, are starting companies because they've seen what works and they've seen what doesn't work. And I'll give you a tangible example of that. So, for example, in general, bio, Is slow. So it can take a couple years to, to get to product. But Michelle and I were very much focused on finding an idea where we could start commercializing as early as possible and as quickly as possible. And, and not only that, but also being able to have some sort of product that's, that can generate early revenue. So we, from the beginning, were very, very, very commercially focused because we've seen what happens when that doesn't happen. And so for us, like that mentality we bring every single day to, To our company. And then on, on the flip side of that is that I think also like the funding climate ha…

AI assessment note: “our company is unique because we span lots of different areas. So we span bio, climate, ag”

Q So any other big decisions that you made that you would have done differently or moments where you hit things out of the park that are big learnings for you?

A So I'll tell you, we'll start with the hitting things out of the park, which is my favorite. We, early on, so, so what we're doing with our technology is we're taking natural proteins and encoding them into microbes that we engineered to make the proteins at high levels and, and maintain their activity, and one of the experiments that we do to look at activity of the proteins is we have what's called a freezing experiment, where we can watch ice being formed in real time, and it's freaking amazing. And so we had made our first set of microbes, and we were getting ready to test them, and the assay, the experiment is an immediate And it was really cool because it was, we saw that we were freezing water with our microbes, and it was, I think all of us jumped up and celebrated and hugged each other because it was the first, like, aha moment. We've done something. We can do this, and, and it happened very quickly after, you know, we had started the company, and so we felt like we were on the right track at that moment, and that, that was a really exciting time, and what's been even great You know, since then is, is reproducing that. So as a scientist, if you do it the first time and it works, you gotta do it again. Cause, uh, science needs to be reproducible. And so, you know, since then we've been reproducing the result. Now it's old news to us, but at the time, the first time it h…

AI assessment note: “we'll start with the hitting things out of the park, which is my favorite.”

Q that, and I'm going to take that up, um, especially because apparently it can mean that you start a company when you read something super cool. So say a bit more, though, about your personal background. What were you working on before you came to this work? Are you familiar with sort of biology? Have you started companies before? What, what are you bringing in to the development of Supercool?

A So I have a lot of experience in bio. I got my PhD at UT Austin in molecular biology, microbiology, and synthetic biology, and from there I, I went directly into industry, and I've been about seven or eight years in biotech working in all different kinds of companies. I was working at a company where we're using microbes to make all kinds of products, and if there's anything I can do on this planet, it is engineer microbes to do all kinds of crazy things. And then I've also worked in, in the ag field as well, and the company, and so I, I have definitely seen a lot of things within the biotech field that go well, things that don't go quite as well, and I have the deep technical expertise in the biospace too, and so that's what, that's what I bring here, and this is my first company. Um, we'll probably stick with it for a while, and And see where it goes, but, but yeah, it, given, given my expertise both in, in academia and in biotech, I, I felt ready to start a company and start this big, big thing where we're using this biology to deliver water, and Michelle is similar as well, so she has a lot of experience, there's her PhD in fungal biology and also in biotech, and so we both definitely understand what it takes to, to commercialize a Uh, bio, technology based off of biology.

AI assessment note: “I got my PhD at UT Austin in molecular biology... this is my first company.”

Q microbes that can produce ice under kind of non-traditional conditions, which I assume means warmer conditions. So was this a recent discovery, or is this something that scientists have known about in some capacity for a long time, and no one has found a way to sort of commercialize a technology that could Provide benefits. Where, where sort of are we in the learning journey around the core technology here?

A The proteins are known, and they've been, that's, that's the amazing paper that I read, a series of papers that I read, were identifying those proteins in fungi. They, there are bacterial versions of these proteins that are used in a product called Stomax, and those have been very well studied since the eighties. The fungal proteins are relatively new, and they've been identified to some degree, but there's not a lot known about them since their discovery was relatively recent, and so Our core tech, what we do is exactly what you said, is we commercialize those proteins so we can make them at scale and also maintain their activity while we're making them at scale, and that's really what Michelle and I are very well equipped to do that we've done a lot in our time in academia and industry is ask, how do we make large quantities of a molecule so that we can scale it, and how do we do that in a cheap way? Because biotech One of the main problems in biotech is, is that it's very expensive to make biological, but we've designed our process to be the opposite of that, uh, because we've been burned before, many, many times. So, so that has, uh, so our, one of our core strategies, being able to make it inexpensively, and at high quantities, and also that the activity is, uh, is really high. So you need low amounts of that protein to be able to do, um, to freeze a fair amount of water.

AI assessment note: “The fungal proteins are relatively new... Our core tech... is we commercialize those proteins”

Q This is great. Okay, so tell us more about how you're getting into that world of field data generation, because obviously the winter actually really was over in California like a month ago. So what comes next for you?

A Yeah, it's funny. I have to, like, chuckle working in this business of chasing winter and the conditions outside. I, I, like, you know, I keep saying this, but I'm a scientist that generally works in the lab, pipetting clear liquids from one place to the other, and I have to worry about the temperature outside, but yes, you're right. Winter is ending here, but we desperately need to do field trials, so we're looking into the southern hemisphere, and specifically at, at New Zealand, and so we've been Again, I've been calling people, ski resorts operators there in New Zealand, and setting up some trials for us to be able to do some testing, some testing there. And we've also found a really great place that does cold weather equipment testing, where they can do A-B testing of our product with different snow guns and generator report. And for us, these metrics are really, really important because we care about statistical significance and understanding how much water do we need Does it need, does our product need to make snow? How much snow is made? What is the quality of that snow? And those data really drive conversations with people that you ultimately want to sell to and demonstrate that your product actually has value and it's not something that you're adding because you're just adding it.

AI assessment note: “we're looking into the southern hemisphere, and specifically at, at New Zealand”

Q there haven't been many companies and like to the extent that there is work that's being done in this arena, it's been in sort of like the R&D simulation world and less sort of in real world experimentation. So is that all still true? Do you see that changing Rapidly, slowly, where are we kind of at this moment in time in our kind of collective ecosystem positioning around geoengineering?

A It's changing rapidly, and I'll tell you, I think it's in response to our climate and people looking at these technologies as ways to mitigate the unpredictability of our climate, both with solar and with precipitation as well. There is a lot, there are many up-and-coming companies within the startup space that are, that are VC-backed, that are exploring these technologies and, and wanting to bring them to scale. So I believe that there is rapid movement in this space that, yes, of course, it started in the academic world with, with research that has then informed startups and, and their, their technologies. That's generally how, how things start, right? How movements start. They, they generally start in academia, and then people use that basic foundational research to then start their own companies, and they're, so there are a lot of other companies in this space, and it's, and it's nice to see Um, people exploring these different strategies that are at the very, very much at the frontier of, of what we're doing right now.

AI assessment note: “It's changing rapidly, and I'll tell you, I think it's in response to”

Q say a bit more about kind of the state of the art there? Like, when did we start doing this kind of cloud seeding? How well does it work? What are the pluses and minuses? Do people even know that we're doing this cloud seeding? Are they opposed to it when they do find out? Like, tell me more about kind of the state of the industry so far there.

A The story is pretty amazing because it was discovered 80 years ago. And it's done with silver iodide, and there's a really great video on YouTube that I encourage everyone to watch where, this is back in the day when scientists would dress up and wear ties, and so there's a video of these scientists dressed up and like ready to do an experiment, and they're, they're putting silver iodide into a freezer, and you can see that there's these little traces that arise, which is the ice, um, forming there, and, uh, so right, so this has been Discovered forever ago, and a big question is, well, why don't we, we do it now? And there's lots of reasons for that, but what we are, what we are changing up about the current industry is the, the biological, is that formulation that's delivered into cloud. So today, cloud heating is done with generators on the ground and generally with aircraft, but there is a big movement right now to switch up that hardware and use drones instead. And then the other piece that we're very focused on, obviously, is the biology and changing that. And what we bring, as opposed to silver iodide, is that we can target more clouds and essentially bring, get more rain than silver iodide can currently today. So we can target more geographies, more warmer clouds, more seasonalities, and then at that same temperature that silver iodide is used, we are also more active a…

AI assessment note: “The story is pretty amazing because it was discovered 80 years ago.”