Aug 23, 2023 · 23m · green-blueprint
As debate over carbon removal swirls, America steps up funding
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Host Stephen Lacey and carbon management expert Savvy Bowman unpack the international debate surrounding carbon dioxide removal, exploring its technological mechanics and highlighting how massive US federal investments are accelerating commercial deployment.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 5.0 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 0.4 The hosts pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:08 Critique of UNFCCC guidance
Bowman firmly counters the UNFCCC supervisory body's skepticism, arguing it mischaracterizes engineered carbon removal and departs from the IPCC's scientific consensus.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 5:06 Naming moral hazard concernsLacey directly presses on the core policy objection to CDR, naming fear of moral hazard as the underlying reason behind international skepticism.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:33 Clarifying Bipartisan Infrastructure Law authorizationBowman corrects Lacey's framing attributing the regional DAC hubs solely to the Inflation Reduction Act, clarifying they were authorized and appropriated under the 2021 Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
The host holds their own ▶ 18:00 SunShot historical precedent analysisLacey provides deep domain context by drawing a technical and policy comparison between the DOE's historical SunShot program for solar and the current Carbon Negative Shot.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Upcoming Energy Events: Transition AI and Canary Live | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | The segment begins with an event promotion and moves into a highly collaborative framing of emissions and carbon removal using the bathtub analogy. Host Stephen Lacey guides the conceptual metaphor alongside brief illustrative contributions from Bowman. | |
| International Debate and UN Skepticism on Engineered CDR | 6 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Lacey demonstrates domain knowledge by referencing how the UNFCCC guidance conflicts with the IPCC's established scientific assessment on carbon removal. Bowman explains the draft guidance status and the underlying debate regarding moral hazard and resource diversion. | |
| Episode Introduction: The Debate Over Carbon Removal | 5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Lacey introduces the show topic and prompts Bowman on market dimensions, where Bowman delivers detailed figures from the National Academies of Science and the DOE Liftoff Report comparing current 7,000-ton capacity against 10-gigaton targets. | |
| Engineered Carbon Removal Technologies and Durability | 4 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Lacey asks about durability concerns and technology readiness across engineered CDR. Bowman delivers an extended educational breakdown covering solid sorbents, liquid solvents, contactors, and regeneration processes. | |
| Addressing Climate Policy Concerns with Varied CDR Approaches | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Lacey queries how international apprehension reflects broader perspectives on CDR. Bowman addresses these criticisms constructively, arguing that a varied portfolio of solutions allows communities to select the carbon removal approach that fits their local needs. | |
| US Federal Backing and Major Direct Air Capture Hubs | 6 | 5 | 1 | 0 | Lacey highlights major funding figures from the IRA and DOE, and Bowman gently corrects the funding origin to the 2021 Bipartisan Infrastructure Law before detailing the South Texas and Project Cypress hubs and technology partners. | |
| Carbon Negative Shot and Government Purchasing Initiatives | 6 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Lacey draws a historical parallel to the DOE SunShot Initiative to frame the Carbon Negative Shot. Bowman elaborates on the $100 per ton target, new procurement pilot announcements, and pending federal legislation like the CREST Act. | |
| Evaluating America’s Leadership in Global Carbon Removal | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Lacey prompts Bowman to assess whether US policy moves have established global leadership in CDR. Bowman affirms US momentum, citing incoming international companies like Climeworks building projects domestically. |
Statements from this episode (12)
Bowman: UN Draft Guidance Asserts Engineered Carbon Removal Is Unproven
“The Article VI supervisory body issued a guidance in May of this year, which by the way is not formally approved yet, and included a technical note that states that engineered carbon removal activities Do not contribute to sustainable development. The proposal…”
Bowman: UNFCCC should align with IPCC and embrace carbon removal
“But I think that the UNFCCC should be aligning closely to the IPCC report's definition of carbon dioxide removal. In that it is a solution that's part of the puzzle to reaching our net zero goals.”
Bowman: Carbon removal is proven tech; the real issue is scale
“This is a proven technology, and we have the ability to develop this technology now. I think the question that we really should be focused on is scale.”
Bowman: Global Carbon Removal Must Reach 10 Gigatons Annually by 2050
“The National Academies of Science estimates that we will need to remove 10 gigatons that's ten billion metric tons of carbon dioxide yearly by twenty-fifty, and then doubling that by 2100.”
Bowman: Global Direct Air Capture Capacity Sits at 7,000 Tons Annually
“DAC is actually currently Hovering around 7000 metric tons annually globally.”
Bowman: DAC Uses Less Land and Captures Carbon Faster Than Trees
“But if we're talking about the square footage it requires to, you know, plant trees and have that carbon dioxide removed over time versus the square footage it requires, or a DAC unit might require to remove carbon dioxide in a given time, the DAC unit is goin…”
Bowman: Liquid Solvents May Reach Low Cost Faster Than Solid Sorbents
“While, you know, liquid solvents are expected to come closer to that low cost faster compared to solid sorbents, it's still uncertain which technology will be low cost as more projects develop.”
Lacey: US Unveils $1.2B in Direct Air Capture Hub Funding
“The Inflation Reduction Act expanded tax credits for the technology, and this month the Biden administration unveiled 1.2 billion dollars in funding for hubs to support direct air capture projects, plus thirteen million dollars for 23 different R&D projects in…”
Bowman: South Texas DAC Hub Will Remove 1M Metric Tons Annually
“South Texas, that's the South Texas DAC Hub, being, ah, led by 1.5, a subsidiary of Occidental Petroleum, and the tech provider for this particular project is Carbon Engineering. They will be removing a million metric tons of carbon dioxide annually and storin…”
Bowman: DOE Targets $100 Per Ton Inclusive Carbon Removal Cost
“The Carbon Negative Shot program is actually a really important DOE initiative because it looks to deploy a suite of carbon removal solutions to reach a hundred dollars per metric ton of carbon removed. So that's an all-inclusive cost.”
Bowman: DOE Launches World's First Direct Government Carbon Removal Purchasing Program
“The notice of intent last Thursday covers that sixty million of the funds will actually go towards direct your capture, but I think what's even more exciting is the Track Two CDR purchase pilot, because this is allocating thirty-five million, roughly over seve…”
Bowman: US On Track to Reach 1B Tons Carbon Removal by 2030
“I'd like to think that by the end of the decade, We're gonna see even more wins because of these catalytic mechanisms that have paved the way for American innovation to really take the forefront. We are on track to reach that first billion metric tons.”