The Exchanges

Q Because it couldn't be to him, right? Were people afraid in Pixar to share, like, harsh feedback or, like, fight with Steve?

A No, no, not with Steve. You know, it was, uh, Uh, actually people, they, they, they would talk back with them. I mean, was there a little bit of fear? And it was obviously, you know, so well known that some people, a lot of people nervous. It was, I mean, there are people nervous about me too, just because the position, that's just a reality is when you're a position of either power or perceived power, that people react to you in a different way. And it's critical to be aware that that phenomenon takes place, because nobody will tell you that. They wouldn't admit it, but it happens. So if you're aware of it, then you can just sort of be a little more tuned in. There's another reason why you didn't go to the brain trust meetings, is that in order to get the dynamics right, that the people with power, either real or perceived power, need to shut the hell up for the first 10 to 15 minutes.

AI assessment note: “No, no, not with Steve. You know, it was... actually people, they would talk back”

Q But what are these mechanisms you're saying to, like, get to these other levels that you used?

A Well, one of them is the discussion is always about the topic. It isn't about who's right. So for me, the example would be in a, a healthy brain trust meeting, because you've got people working on a film. So what are the dynamics when you, you come together as a group, In order to discuss something, and you're discussing something that has problems. Just the nature of all these films is, it may be a great idea underneath it, but it's not gelling or it's not working right. The creative team presenting it know that it doesn't work, but it also means they're vulnerable. They feel vulnerable, and they're presenting it to their colleagues and people who are very successful. So if you're aware of that, then you can actually, uh, give them space in order to listen, because that's what we really want is for them to listen. But there are other dynamics that are going on. There are people in the room who may be new to the room, and they may want to demonstrate that they're capable of contributing. So if they put out an idea and it doesn't work, Then they may feel like they've embarrassed themselves or they haven't shown themselves worthy. They're not thinking about their relationship to it rather than about the problem. So that's a psychological thing that happens in the group. I throw out an idea. Is it accepted or rejected? That becomes a personal thing.

AI assessment note: “one of them is the discussion is always about the topic. It isn't about who's right.”

Q So we just remove the silos in Pixar? I don't know if I'm understanding.

A The idea was to remove the silos. I say that because there were three times in the history of Pixar in which a group arose that felt like they were second class and we, and we missed it and we were looking for it. So this is really hard and it's very subtle. As an example, after we're successful, we bring in some young people And they hear the early stories, because in the early stories that, uh, you know, when we're making Toy Story, people are spending a lot of time there in the, in the building, and there's a lot of clowning around, and, um, uh, these little hand scooter races around the building, and, you know, you know, funny things like that, all sorts of gags, and so forth. So you hear those stories, but now for somebody new in the building, What they see, because it's a few years later, is these people who had a lot of fun and were pretty irreverent, were now married and had kids, and at night they went home to their kids. So regardless of what you say, they don't want to look like they're out of place with these people they respect, because they're very successful. It doesn't matter what you say, they're emulating the behaviors that they see, and what they see are people who are going home at night. Meanwhile, The people that are going home at night to their families are saying to each other, what's wrong with these new people you're hiring? They don't have any sense o…

AI assessment note: “The idea was to remove the silos. I say that because there were three times”

Q But what is your reaction to this when they make this decision for Toy Story three? Is this when Steve says he's breaking off the, because there was a time period where Pixar breaks off the negotiations with Disney completely. Is this the same time?

A Well, no. What's happening is we're just getting near the end of the contract, but we're, we're getting close to the delivering the last film, and at, at which point, uh, Steve would not have let Pixar, um, stay with Disney. Steve, at this point, also knew that they had cancer, and he was, uh, Uh, it was very, very, an emotional time once in which, uh, actually, it's, it's actually when he showed us the first iPhone when it was a secret. And we're on this bridge between the one building and, uh, there's a bridge over that goes between another tall building next to it. And, and the secret lab is where they're designing it. And he told us that, uh, you know, he didn't know how long he was going to live. Um, and he lived several years after that, but he, he wanted to make sure that his family was taken care of. He wanted to see his son graduate from high school, and he wanted to make sure that Pixar was in, in good shape. It was very emotional at that time. Michael Eisner was still the CEO, and he would not have continued with Michael Eisner. So, since we were getting into the contract, he started discussions with other studios, um, which would mean, you know, them doing the distribution. In fact, Disney is the best at marketing films, including internationally. We started those discussions, and then the war over, uh, Michael Eisenberg got really heated up, and, um, They, they vot…

AI assessment note: “Well, no. What's happening is we're just getting near the end of the contract”

Q But this instinct, I want to focus on your time and what you learned from George Lucas, but this instinct that to constantly share knowledge is something that happened in grad school, and you seem to perpetuate that throughout your entire career, correct?

A Yes. I, there was a succession of insights for me just at a personal level. One of them was at grad school as I was graduating, I can look back, and, and did, and, and just say that this was a fantastic four years. I loved my time. I loved the people. I loved the way the professors worked. I loved the support and the environment. It was invigorating. We all had different interests, and it was like, I, I, I said to myself, this is the kind of experience I want to have for the rest of my life. So that became one of the Foundational things for me is that way of working is a great way of working. We accomplished a lot. And I went to New York Tech, and I had a bunch of theories about how to manage. And the, uh, and what I found as I got into it was that some of my theories were a complete crock. I mean, I didn't know what I was doing. I never managed anything in my life. So, uh, and, and I boxed myself into a corner. Um, uh, at the same time, I, I also recognized there was something about the position I was, that was in that, that some of the newer people were treating me a little bit differently, even though I didn't feel I was different. So, this was an interesting psychological phenomenon that was going on, which I found interesting, because when I went there, I, I didn't really want to be a manager. I kind of liked the idea of being in charge, but I didn't want to do the hard pa…

AI assessment note: “Yes. I, there was a succession of insights for me just at a personal level.”

Q Apart from who was on the board, how was it, how did Steve manage the board differently than other CEOs?

A You know, we had a, a few of the critical issues out of the company. Uh, we were a production-only company. Uh, we, all of our films were marketed through Disney. So, um, and then there was a limited time span in our contract with Disney. So there are a number of things we have to do to figure out where the company's going, what the relationship is, how we make it strong or where's it threatened. And, and, uh, at the time through a lot of this time, uh, uh, Michael Eisner was the CEO and the, and the, and the CEO of Disney, Michael Eisner did not get along well with With Steve. Steve hated him. The real reason for that, well, there were, there were two things there. One of them was that, um, Michael testified before Congress about ripping, because there was some testimony about it with audio. Yeah.

AI assessment note: “we had a, a few of the critical issues out of the company.”