Nov 25, 2025 · 46m · cheeky-pint
Julia DeWahl of Antares on building nuclear reactors for the US military
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Antares co-founder Julia DeWahl discusses developing sub-megawatt nuclear micro-reactors to replace vulnerable military diesel generators and power off-grid industrial operations. She examines regulatory reforms, critical supply chain dependencies, operational lessons from SpaceX, and the surging energy demand from AI data centers driving an American nuclear renaissance.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. John holds 23.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
John as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 4.8 Guest disagreement 1.3 John pushing back 1.5
speaking balance: gold is John, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 22:45 DeWahl counters solar maximalism with grid integration costs
DeWahl firmly rejects the premise that ultra-cheap solar panels make nuclear redundant, arguing solar advocates ignore massive storage and transmission expenses.
Hardest push from John ▶ 23:15 Collison challenges energy diversity thesis against pure solar scalingCollison directly pushes back on DeWahl's multi-source energy premise by voicing the solar maximalist argument that solar and gas will outcompete nuclear on cost.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 24:05 DeWahl corrects Collison on US nuclear grid shareDeWahl quizzes Collison on US nuclear generation, and when Collison guesses 5-10%, she reveals the actual figure is 18%, highlighting widespread public underestimation.
John holds their own ▶ 44:40 Collison synthesizes historical grid stagnation and AI demand spikesCollison demonstrates commanding domain knowledge by connecting decade-long sub-1% grid growth trends to the current 5% AI data center infrastructure surge.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | John as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | John pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Customer Discovery Lessons from Opendoor and SpaceX | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Collison prompts DeWahl on product discovery lessons from Opendoor and SpaceX Starlink. DeWahl explains how customer interviews outside bagel shops and customer Zoom calls led to dedicated Starlink mounting teams. The exchange is collegial and narrative-focused. | |
| Defining Micro-Reactors and Strategic Beachhead Markets | 5 | 5 | 1 | 2 | Collison uses power benchmarks (1MW neighborhood, 1GW plant) to contextualize Antares's reactors, comparing them to submarine reactors. DeWahl clarifies that Antares is sub-megawatt car-sized power designed to replace tactical diesel generators and power underwater mini-systems. | |
| Technical Testing Milestones and 2027 Power Roadmap | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Collison inquires about the timeline for live power output compared to fusion milestones. DeWahl explains the technical progression from a 2026 criticality test to a fully functioning power-producing demonstrator by late 2027. | |
| Defense Fuel Logistics and Commercial Off-Grid Expansion | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Collison raises current military fuel quality controversies in Asia and off-grid reliability constraints. DeWahl underscores that roughly 50% of casualties in Afghanistan stemmed from fuel convoys, making fuel supply chain untethering a primary defense driver. | |
| Historical Factors in the Decline of Nuclear Construction | 5 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Collison notes Ireland's legal prohibition on nuclear power and historical fears over Sellafield. DeWahl describes shifting public sentiment across generations and her activism keeping California's Diablo Canyon open against legacy anti-nuclear groups like Mothers for Peace. | |
| NRC Modernization and Department of Energy Regulatory Sandboxes | 5 | 6 | 1 | 2 | Collison asks if NRC red tape is the primary obstacle to a nuclear renaissance. DeWahl explains recent statutory reforms mandating broader economic considerations and 18-month review clocks, highlighting the alternative DOE and DOD testing sandboxes that bypass civilian NRC jurisdiction. | |
| Clean Energy Scenarios and the Hidden Costs of Solar | 6 | 7 | 3 | 4 | Collison lays out three clean energy visions and challenges the necessity of nuclear if solar and batteries continue steep cost declines. DeWahl pushes back on the hidden balance-of-system and peaker costs of solar, then quizzes Collison on the US nuclear grid share (18%), which he had underestimated at 5-10%. | |
| Sponsor Break: Stripe Radar Automated Fraud Defense | 4 | 6 | 1 | 1 | Following an ad break, Collison asks about nuclear fuel supply chains. DeWahl details domestic mining deficits (1% mined in the US) and reliance on Russian enrichment, noting new private ventures like General Matter entering enrichment. | |
| Founding Antares and Targeting Defense as a Beachhead | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | DeWahl explains how witnessing European energy shocks during the Ukraine invasion led to founding Antares alongside co-founder Jordan. When Collison asks about DARPA involvement, DeWahl notes that micro-reactor engineering is largely de-risked physics rather than novel science. | |
| SpaceX Cultural Rigor and Milestone-Based Defense Contracts | 5 | 5 | 1 | 2 | DeWahl shares how SpaceX's rigorous five-whys confrontational culture influenced Antares. She explains the military's shift away from cost-plus contracts toward fixed-price, milestone-based procurement models like the Army's Janus program, analogous to NASA's COTS. | |
| Navigating Defense Bureaucracy and Hard Tech Realities | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Collison explores the friction of defense contracting. DeWahl highlights Anduril as a trailblazer while outlining the realities of government lab testing fees, slow institutional cycles, and navigating the hardware valley of death. | |
| Federal Anchor Procurement and Public-Private Nuclear Deals | 5 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Collison asks what policy levers DeWahl would pull as energy czar and whether Antares considered overseas regulatory shopping. DeWahl advocates for anchor government procurement like the $80B Westinghouse commitment, affirming Antares's commitment to domestic defense. | |
| Manufacturing Constraints, Graphite Sourcing, and Talent Dynamics | 4 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Collison asks about reshoring constraints in manufacturing and specialized talent. DeWahl explains that nuclear-grade component supply chains are sparse, presenting imported Japanese reactor moderator graphite as an example. | |
| Restarting Shuttered Reactors Amid the AI Data Center Boom | 6 | 4 | 2 | 2 | DeWahl highlights tech hyperscalers restarting shuttered nuclear plants like Duane Arnold and Three Mile Island. Collison synthesizes macro energy data, noting how flat grid growth for 20 years has abruptly surged to 5% annually due to AI data centers. |
Statements from this episode (33)
DeWahl: US missile defense sites still rely on diesel generators
“Our, you know, our missile defense sites are sitting there, like, being powered by diesel generators still, like, shouldn't we upgrade that?”
DeWahl: Antares is building sub-megawatt nuclear micro-reactors
“The really small ones are the micro-reactors, and we're actually one of the smallest of those, so we're even sub one megawatt, we're kind of in the hundreds of kilowatt scale, you can think of that as like hundreds of houses worth of electricity.”
DeWahl: Nuclear power must target premium buyers like the military and hyperscalers
“And so we believe, I believe that, you know, premium power is where you need to go with nuclear, and there's sort of like two, there's two places for that. One is what we're doing with Antares, which is go to the military, help them with mission critical need …”
Antares targets 2026 criticality test and 2027 demonstration reactor unit
“So next year, our criticality test is kind of the first milestone. By end of 2027, we want to have our first demonstration unit demonstrated.”
DeWahl: Path for US nuclear reactor builds is clearer than ever
“There's just, like, so much happening where they're opening up federal land they're removing, starting to remove some of those, like, NEPA-type regulations that really just hold everything up so there is a clearer path now than there really ever has been for r…”
DeWahl: No nuclear micro-reactors are commercially available today
“Well, the market for micro-reactors is one of these ones where it's like, well, there are no micro-reactors today on the market to just like buy and use.”
DeWahl: 50% of Afghanistan War casualties were tied to logistics
“I mean, it was 50% of the, I think the Afghanistan casualties were from just logistics.”
DeWahl: The US launched a nuclear reactor into space in the 1960s
“We actually put one reactor into space in the 19 sixties to test that out.”
DeWahl: State-level nuclear energy bans are falling across the US
“There's actually many states in the US that have bans as well, but they've just been falling left and right.”
DeWahl: Nuclear energy support surged nearly 20 points to over 60%
“The, like, percentage point change we've seen in the last five to 10 years is almost 20 points. I mean, it's like 17 points or something. Yes. So it's 60 plus percent of people support nuclear.”
DeWahl: NRC regulatory headwinds are overestimated today
“I think it's an overestimated headwind, certainly today. I think if you go back five years ago, 10 years ago, for sure, I mean, they hadn't licensed anything in decades.”
DeWahl: NRC rules now mandate licensing decisions within 18 months
“Right now, there's they've changed it to, you have 18 months to get your answer from the NRC. License or no license, like, do, do you pass or not?”
DeWahl: Antares is participating in the DOE's new test reactor program
“And so actually, Antares is part of this new test reactor program, which allows the DOE alongside usually like Idaho National Lab to be sort of your regulator as you're testing your first reactors, so that you don't have to spend all this time up front with th…”
DeWahl: Antares will pursue DOD licensing before approaching the NRC
“The Army is now also able to license its own reactors alongside the Navy, which already does. So that will absolutely be our first stop. The NRC really only license sorry, regulates civilian electricity, so civilian power. So we actually don't need to even go …”
DeWahl: 100% 24/7 solar and battery storage costs rival nuclear
“Actually to get true hundred percent, 24 seven coverage, the battery or the excess build out is massive. It is really expensive. It's on, it's like basically on par with nuclear costs.”
DeWahl: Uranium is a million times as energy dense as coal
“Uranium, while it does require, you know, digging out of the ground or whatever, it's so much easier to store. It's a million times as dense as coal, right?”
DeWahl: Only 1% of US Nuclear Fuel Was Domestically Mined Over Last Decade
“The last 10 years or so, it's been, like, one percent of nuclear fuel used in the U.S. Was actually domestically mined.”
DeWahl: US Buys Almost 50% of Its Uranium From Russia and Ex-Soviet States
“And yeah, we're still buying, like, almost 50% of our uranium from Russia and, kind of, ex-Soviet states.”
DeWahl: Scott Nolan and Founders Fund Launch Uranium Enrichment Firm General Matter
“And, actually, there's a little bit of Silicon Valley DNA entering the space with General Matter, which is Scott Nolan's company out of Founders Fund, so he's getting into the enrichment space.”
DeWahl: Antares is not using DARPA because micro-reactors lack fundamental technical novelty
“We are not working with DARPA mostly because it's actually not as technically risky as you might even think, like even. ... Like we actually, in a funny way, like it's not even really a tech problem. ... You know, I mean, it's hard to build these things, but i…”
DeWahl: Commercializing Antares Micro-Reactors Will Cost Hundreds of Millions
“Oh, in the hundreds of millions.”
DeWahl: US Army Janus Program to Fund 3 to 5 Prototype Nuclear Reactors
“The Army has taken that model a bit, and I think used that as inspiration for this Janus program, where they're saying, we're going to fund up to kind of three to five companies to build their first prototype alongside us, kind of at a base, and then we will k…”
DeWahl: Antares pays national labs hundreds of thousands to prep testing
“You know, we spend a lot of money paying the national labs to do things like clear out a pit so that we can test our reactor, and it's like, we're paying for that, and they're like, you know, here's hundreds of thousand dollars, here's the bill.”
DeWahl: US Government Plans $80B Nuclear Partnership with Westinghouse
“The announcement is that the U.S. Government now wants to spend eighty billion dollars on nuclear development alongside Westinghouse.”
DeWahl: Brookfield Moving to Complete Abandoned V.C. Summer Nuclear Plant
“There's a huge, like, trillion asset, trillion dollar asset under management company called Brookfield Asset Management, and they they've actually just gotten in the game as well. In the last couple weeks, I'm sure there was, like, talk, right? Yeah, yeah. To …”
DeWahl: Antares Did Not Seek Foreign Regulatory Jurisdictions
“You know, we really didn't. It felt like there was enough signal that we would be able to, you know, get through regulatory, right, and see some positive change. There was enough to basically demand signal within the US, and it's, I don't know, we take pride i…”
DeWahl: US Military Is Largest Buyer of Non-Commodity Energy
“The largest buyer of non-commodity energy, if not all energy.”
DeWahl: Antares is already talking with oil and gas operators
“We are, you know, we're talking with oil and gas already. Just understanding them, right? What do you need? What do you think you'd pay?”
DeWahl: No one is processing nuclear-grade graphite in the US
“The graphite that I brought here is actually from a Japanese company, right? No one's even processing that stuff in the U.S.”
DeWahl: Three Mile Island accident was completely overblown
“Well, it was an accident, but it was not really a big deal. Like, this much radiation came out, it was like this amount of a chest x-ray. Yes, completely overblown.”
DeWahl: Microsoft and Constellation are restarting Three Mile Island
“That's being brought up back online, partnership between Microsoft and Constellation, I believe.”