The Exchanges

Q So we've got a hero who wants something and has a problem. What's the third element?

A Third thing we want to do is we want to position ourselves as the guide, not the hero. The customer is the hero in the story. We are the guide. So the guide is Gandalf. The guide is Obi-Wan Kenobi. The guide is Yoda. The guide is Mary Poppins. The guide is the character in the movie who has the wisdom and enlightenment to help the hero get what they want. The biggest mistake people make is they play the hero. You go back and you look at this recent campaign. Kamala Harris did three things wrong that I can think of from a messaging perspective. She didn't have a clear offer. Her offer was basically, I'm not Donald Trump. You try building a restaurant on, I'm not that burger down the street, and see if it grows. People go, what do you serve? Well, I'm not that burger down the street. Well, do you have fries? Well, I'll tell you, their fries stink. Well, can you tell me anything about yourself, please? And when we just bask in the resentment that we have toward our opponent, you're going to fail. You've got to have an offer that's really differentiated. Second, she offered way too many things. She offered make America great again, make America healthy again, make America safe again. He had sound bites that people could remember when they went to the polls. I don't know a single thing she offered. And then her tagline was, let's win this. What is this? So I can either let's win thi…

AI assessment note: “Third thing we want to do is we want to position ourselves as the guide”

Q So you've got the hero who wants something, they've got a problem they're encountering, and you are the guide. What happens from there?

A Usually if it's a complex sales process, there's a three-step plan. And the three-step plan would be, let's use the example of an at-home chef. So let's go away from investments. If I'm talking to somebody who's an at-home chef, and I say, hey, what do you do? They should start by saying, you know how most families don't eat together anymore, and when they do, they don't eat healthy? Yeah, I know exactly how that feels. So he's just stated a problem. Rather than saying, I'm an at-home chef, notice he didn't answer, I'm an at-home chef. He started with a problem. Then he says, I'm an at-home chef. Now, he's just positioned himself as the solution to the problem. And then he gives you a three-step plan. Working with me is very easy. I usually do an intake session. I find out about your dietary restrictions, what your favorite foods are. That's step one. Step two is I cook one meal for you and your family. Step three, if you like it, we enter into a retainer. Would you like to have an intake session? So I just gave them a three-step plan, and then I invited them to take the first step. I broke it down into baby steps, so it's all really easy. And there's also no cognitive dissonance. When you're selling something that's complicated, for instance, you coming into my house and cooking meals, I don't know how this is gonna work. I don't know if you're gonna smell up the kitchen. I do…

AI assessment note: “Usually if it's a complex sales process, there's a three-step plan.”

Q What have you learned that's improved the approach between the original building a story brand and the new book coming out?

A We added a lot. We added the storybrand.ai component, and I added 10,000 words of stories of people who've succeeded, because I think people learn really well through stories. But we added one thing to the book that wasn't in the first book. We added the idea of a controlling idea. That every campaign needs a controlling idea. The controlling idea is the idea that I'm going to submit to as I write this story. For instance, the controlling idea for a rom-com might be Uh, man meets the woman of his dreams and soon discovers she's engaged to his jerk brother. Okay, so if that's the rom-com, I have to then submit every single scene and every single word to that idea. Because if he's also trying to make the football team at Notre Dame, we have two different stories. And now I'm causing the audience to burn way too many calories trying to figure out what the story is about. And remember the rule number one that we talked about was don't make anybody think. So there needs to be a controlling idea around your company. There needs to be a controlling idea, I think, around every product, and then your messaging needs to submit to that controlling idea, or else you will confuse people.

AI assessment note: “We added one thing to the book that wasn't in the first book.”

Q As you started talking to companies, what did you realize were the most important parts of this story?

A It's clarity. So people want to sound smart, or they want a tagline that's cute and clever, And clarity wins the day every single time. And it's almost like people have trouble believing that it can be that easy and it can actually grow your business. There's a friend of mine who runs a brand called Spectrum Brands. They have Remington Shavers. They also have a brand that dominates the fish food aquarium market in pet stores. And we spent a day together trying to solve the problem. How do you get families to buy aquariums? Because right now it's mostly hobbyists. And I think they make a hundred million dollars selling pet equipment. And we just came up with three words, kids love aquariums. And these are Oxford guys. These are very, very smart people who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to test market things, and they don't take chances. And I said, look, just test it in one market. Just put kids love aquariums on everything and see what happens. They didn't want to do it. Their boss had found this author that they brought in, and they was like, who's this guy? He went to Alvin Community College, home of the fighting dolphins. Give me a break. They put Kids Love Aquariums on everything in the test market, saw a 99% increase in sales. So at the end of distribution, that should amount to about a hundred million dollars in extra revenue from three words. So that's the part tha…

AI assessment note: “It's clarity. So people want to sound smart, or they want a tagline”

Q In a lot of situations, let's say in the investment world, the problem is investment returns or some type of investment return, but there's actually a person who's also making the decision. How do you think about how to address the person or the hero in the story?

A So the investor is the hero. The person managing the money is the guide. And there are two things that the guide needs to do that if they do these things, the hero will automatically say, that's my guide. One is empathy. So there's a soundbite that the guide writes down or intuitively understands that they need to listen to the customer's problem. What has been your frustration with investment opportunities in the past? Well, I just never got a good return, or they were never transparent, or I was always losing sleep worrying about my money. At that point, when you hear a customer say that, as the guide in their story, you want to stop, and you actually want to spend a good bit of time there. You want to say, tell me about that. And then when they tell you about it, you say, that sounds very frustrating, and that actually isn't fair. In fact, I would say that's not right. You are empathizing with the pain that the customer has, and when you do that, they sense, you care about me. Now, the second thing that you have to do after you empathize is you have to demonstrate competency. You have to say, all of my clients have had that problem and that frustration, and let me tell you how we delivered so they could never feel that pain again. So the guide is competent and caring, and those two go together to create you and my subconscious as the person that I'm going to do business with…

AI assessment note: “So the investor is the hero. The person managing the money is the guide.”

Q What have been the stories that have most resonated that you added to two point oh?

A Gosh, the kids love aquarium story is in there that I've repeated over and over. I remember working with a woman who had a company called Gardenary. She helps mostly women build kitchen gardens. She's paid a million dollars a year in her consulting to help you figure out your garden. And the word Gardenary is a made up word, and it came from her saying that she wanted to make gardening ordinary. So she put gardening and ordinary together and came with word gardenary. And I said to her, Nicole, Nicole Burke, Follow her on Instagram, by the way. She's amazing. Nobody has ever woken up in the morning and said, I want to make gardening ordinary. Not a single person. In fact, you might be the only one. Millions of people have woken up saying they want to start a garden. So why don't you buy startagarden.com and become the start a garden lady? Well, she did that, and what do you think happened? So there's just stories like that all over the place where what you're saying is great. It's just that people have to stop Pour a glass of whiskey, sit down, light a cigar, and try and figure out what the heck you're talking about. And nobody is doing it. Nobody. They need to understand it while they're driving down the road, and as soon as you say it, they need to go, I want to start a guard, and I'm going to get that woman's book. And once you hit that, it's like striking oil. You put the st…

AI assessment note: “the kids love aquarium story is in there that I've repeated over and over.”

Q What's the difference between creating that in a soundbite and the full breadth of a story?

A There's three phases that customers go through in the buying journey, and it's also the three phases everybody goes through in a relationship journey. And the three phases are curiosity, enlightenment, and commitment. So curiosity is something that you've said that makes them want to do due diligence. And that's where the tagline comes in or the soundbite comes in. And it's also what most people are missing in their messaging strategy. They've got lots of lead generators or due diligence or white papers or case studies that enlighten people about how their product works or how their process works or whatever it is, why you should invest with them. What they don't have is the soundbite that makes them want to read the white paper or the case study. So the soundbite is more important than anything else. In a relationship, when I met my wife, I thought she was attractive. So that piqued my curiosity. And then I got to know her and thought, this woman is really stable, really smart. I could build a life with this woman. So that was the enlightenment phase. And then the commitment phase was when I got down on it. I said, will you marry me? And customers weirdly go through the same journey, but we're all missing the first date. We're all missing the first impression, and without that, you just don't date as many people, because one out of every 100 will wander upon your case study an…

AI assessment note: “What they don't have is the soundbite that makes them want to read the white paper”

Q When you're talking to someone and trying to figure out what the problem is, what are those different sources? What are you trying to get at?

A It's a great question. The problem is the most important thing to get right. In fact, if you get one soundbite, it's the problem. I'd say it's 75% of the soundbites, and the other six are the other 25%. It's that important because the problem is the hook. There's actually three levels of problems in every story, and there should be three soundbites. In your messaging system as it relates to the problem. The first is external, and that's usually the physical problem. For example, there's a bomb that needs to be disarmed if we're writing a story. There's a roof that's got a leak. That's if you're a roofer, that's it. That's the external. People think they want a solution to the external problem, but they actually don't. What they want is a solution to the internal problem, and the internal problem is how the leaky roof is making me feel. Frustrated because that was supposed to last 30 years and it lasted 10. So now I'm frustrated, and I feel ripped off because I got a leaky roof. Well, now that's the actual problem you're resolving. People buy things because they are emotionally agitated. By the way, if I have a leaky roof, and I don't care about a leaky roof, am I fixing my leaky roof?

AI assessment note: “There's actually three levels of problems in every story... The first is external”

Q So in that situation where, let's say it's a complex proposition, how do you decide what to focus on and what to let come in the background?

A You need what's called a brand script. So that's a soundbite on the character, a soundbite on the problem, a soundbite on the guide, a soundbite on the plan, a soundbite on the call to action, a soundbite on the success and failure. Those are the seven soundbites that you need. And when you're talking to an audience, if I'm running for president and I'm talking to the teachers union, My character's gonna want more pay and more respect as a teacher. Their problem is whatever that problem happens to be that the union doesn't like. So I'm gonna tailor that brand script for that audience. If I'm talking to the general public, I'm gonna try to find several problems, but I'm gonna create a brand script for each one. Taxes are gonna be one. The rising price of college is gonna be another. So I'm gonna pick my message, my brand script for each audience. So if I'm running for president, I've got an overall plot brand script, and then I've got what I would call subplots. The teacher subplot, the debt subplot, the religious liberties subplot, healthcare subplot, and I've written brand scripts for every single one of those. And then the key is to stay disciplined and repeat those sound bites over and over and over until the audience that I am talking to has them memorized. And when they have my talking points memorized, I'm gonna smoke the competition. So I can't go into a room and just an…

AI assessment note: “So I'm gonna pick my message, my brand script for each audience.”

Q You know, a lot of our audience in the asset management industry, there are a lot of, say, products that are similar to one another. And when you have a structure of an industry that has a lot of products competing for the same customers, how do you think about that differentiation?

A You've got to find the one thing that differentiates you. In fact, it's one of the questions we ask in a lot of the prompts at StoryBrand.ai is what makes this different? And a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that because everybody's doing the same thing, They can't really talk about a differentiator, but the reality is as soon as you talk about something that everybody else is doing anyway, you have just differentiated yourself because nobody else is talking about it. It's the difference between reality and perception. If my competitors aren't talking about this thing and I start talking about it, it looks like I'm the only one who's actually doing it. And by the way, I deserve to win because they weren't smart enough to talk about it. They assumed the customer knew And the customer didn't know. So it's really important that you don't get caught up that we're all doing the same thing. The perception is, if they're not talking about it, you are, that you're the only one doing it.

AI assessment note: “as soon as you talk about something that everybody else is doing anyway, you have just differentiated”

Q How do you think about the difference between products, fish, chicken, and services?

A There is almost no difference. We always have to add the word and services when we're talking about story brand, but there really isn't a difference. The key is clarity, clarity, clarity. We think of our services as products. We think of them as things that we sell that have descriptive copy on web pages and things like that. Sometimes there's SEC compliance that you have to work around and make sure that you're compliant, but other than that, it's just Hey, if you're struggling with this problem, this service is the right decision for you. And that's really it. By the way, that's a formula. I don't want to pass over that. If you actually say, if you're struggling with this, or if you're feeling a little insecure about this, or if you're confused about this, buying this is the right decision. Those are the magic words. Buying this is the right decision. Because what they're wondering is, is this going to work for me? And what they're really wondering is, is this the right decision? And if you actually just say, this is the right decision, they go, oh, okay. Otherwise, they say, I'll get back to you, and they don't have any time to research it or think about it, and so they just forget to call you back.

AI assessment note: “There is almost no difference. We always have to add the word and services”

Q How do you think about the science compared to the art of coming up with that messaging?

A There's some intuitive ability to it. I've written, gosh, 13, 14 books now. I don't know how many thousands of hours that I've spent trying to figure out the next sentence. So that has done something in my brain that is just different. And then it's an age-old debate. Are you channeling something, or is it coming from your subconscious? The rest of it, though, is science. And by science, I mean, you want to start every sales letter with the problem, and then you want to position the product as the solution to the problem. So for storyband.ai, I wrote over a 120 pages of single space rules behind the scenes that always start with the problem, always make it less than 12 words, always do this. So I think that without the science, the art doesn't work. I remember I played tennis in high school, and back there at my alma mater, Alvin Community College, home of the Fighting Dolphins, I played with the tennis team. I gotta be very clear, in case I'm fact-checked, I was not on the tennis team, because I wasn't good. But I remember the tennis coach saying to me, You're really good. I wish you would have learned the proper form because that should come first. You should know the physics of the court. You should know to bend your knees. You should know to stay on the balls of your feet. You should know that you need to get down when you hit a backhand. You don't know any of that stuff. S…

AI assessment note: “without the science, the art doesn't work”

Q When you get to that last step, the commitment, when a product or a service has a long sales cycle, how do you think about applying the methodology to getting that commitment?

A Well, I'll share one bit of it, and that is trust equals value over time. One of the most important things, if there's a long sales cycle, is that you're sending really helpful, valuable information to whoever's considering that every week. People will forget about you very quickly. So the most important thing in a long sales cycle is certainly give them the information they need to make the right decision, but stay familiar. Because the more times they see you, interact with you, the higher the trust is. I remember when I dated my wonderful wife, who's a gift and somebody I don't deserve. I dated her. I moved to DC to get to know her better and to start dating. After a few months, I was like, this is the woman I'm going to marry. She's great. She sat me down one day and she said, Don, you are a quality time guy. And I thought, okay, I think that might be a compliment, but I'm not sure. What are you saying? She goes, well, you just get to know people really fast. You make decisions very quickly. They tend to be good decisions. You trust people very quickly. You have a strong intuition about who is worth spending time with and who isn't, and you can do that quickly. And I said, well, that's wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, that's a compliment. She goes, I'm not a quality time girl. I am a quantity time girl. And I said, what are you saying? She goes, this is going to take you a minut…

AI assessment note: “One of the most important things, if there's a long sales cycle, is”

Q When you're working on that soundbite piece to attract it, how do you know that if you're so close to it that it won't confuse someone from the outside?

A I test it. Sometimes it's just obvious. Eat More Chicken has made Chick-fil-A billions and billions and billions of dollars. Yeah, we're going to test market it, but that's going to freaking work. And kids love aquariums. I thought of that because we were in London, and my daughter, my three-year-old daughter, would make a stop at the aquarium in the lobby for five minutes so that we could find Nemo. Because it was a fish that looked like Nemo in there. And as soon as they started talking about it, I thought, but kids love aquariums. And as soon as it came out of my mouth, I thought, that's it. You have an intuitive sense. I think if you have any questions about what that means, that's when you're in trouble. And ultimately, you want to test it with a market and see if you get a bigger response. And if you do, you know you're onto something.

AI assessment note: “I test it. Sometimes it's just obvious.”

Q How about a different situation where you only have one client? So it could be a single family office, or it could be an endowment for one university. How do you think about the importance of describing your approach or what it is that you're doing to serve just that one client?

A That's a great question. And I'd love more time to think about it. So this is an off the cuff answer. When you're with that single customer, you want to continue to position yourself as the guide in their life. And you do that with statements of empathy and statements of competency. It's not good enough to understand what the problem is. You have to go back and say, hey, if I heard you correctly, this is what you were frustrated about, or this is what you're struggling with. That sounds terrible. You certainly shouldn't have to struggle with that. That statement right there positions you as the guide. You almost want to create a little checklist, and when you get back in the car, you hang up the phone, you look at the checklist and go, did I make a statement of empathy? What's really beautiful about that is your heart will follow your mouth, and you'll begin looking for places, and one of the family values that we have, we have four core values in my family, the three of us, me, Betsy, and Emmeline, three and a half year old. One of them is attunement. So we talk about all the time the importance of being attuned, and what we mean by that is the importance of understanding what the people around us are feeling. Now imagine a three and a half year old who grows up in a home, And we're constantly talking about attunement. Hey, what do you think our friend was thinking? You know, …

AI assessment note: “When you're with that single customer, you want to continue to position yourself as the guide”

Q The importance when you're working with businesses of putting themselves as the guide as opposed to the hero is this interesting concept because ultimately you're doing that so that you can win. How does that guide then not translate to the hero?

A Oh, yeah. I had a health scare, and there was eight days when I thought I had one to five years to live, and that health scare ended up not being credible. But during that eight days, what amazed me was all I cared about. I didn't care about writing another book. I didn't care about money. I cared about my wife's well-being, my friend's well-being, and my daughter's well-being. That's all I cared about. And that was very comforting to know that I'm not a complete jerk, but it also said that the meaning of life, I think, for all of us is really to play the guide, not the hero. And I remember this guy named David Gentiles. My second book was dedicated to him. He was like a father to me, and David was always poor. He worked at a church in Austin, Texas at the end of his life that only had about a hundred people attending it. His career got smaller and smaller the older he got, and he got more into the trenches with people and less famous. While that was happening in David's life, I was getting famous. My books were on the New York Times for like 40 weeks in a row. And I remember thinking, this isn't really fair, because David is such a better human being than me, but nobody knows who he is. And there was a guilt there for me. So David died in an accident, and they called me and said, will you deliver the eulogy? And I said, I would be honored. And I assumed there wouldn't be a who…

AI assessment note: “the meaning of life, I think, for all of us is really to play the guide”