The Exchanges

Q Where it extends to his support of Donald Trump. And then I would say more importantly, uh, his, um, The way that he actually influenced the staffing of his administration. So is that where you were going earlier, Max?

A Yeah. I mean, I, I think, um, so as you said, uh, Teal, uh, you know, famously or infamously, depending on your politics, uh, you know, made a big donation to the, the Trump campaign, uh, just before, uh, just before the 2016 election. Um, and, and also gave this speech at the Republican national convention endorsing, um, Trump, and that gets him on the transition committee, and as a result, you know, gives him access to the Trump administration, and he is given an opportunity by Steve Bannon, who was his, you know, his ally, you know, his main ally in the administration, um, at least until Bannon was, um, you know, ousted. Um, given the job of appointing, um, basically people who can, you know, disrupt, as Bannon put it to me, kind of disrupt the administrative state, who can, who can help, you know, Do the, the, the execute the Trump revolution on government. And, and, and so he has a chance to appoint all of these.

AI assessment note: “given the job of appointing, um, basically people who can, you know, disrupt”

Q And be about Trump's election. Okay. But, but what about the money though? The, the, um, the, the deals for his companies. Did he, did he make out okay from, from those?

A Yeah. I mean, he did great. And I think some of it, it's, of course, it's always hard to, it's always, it's always hard to untangle. Okay. Like why did Palantir get those contracts? Did Palantir, Palantir got a, uh, an eight hundred million dollar army contract, another four hundred million dollar contract. Um, and, uh, uh, he took over this, uh, project maven from Google. That's another forty million bucks a year. You know, it goes on and on. Um, And of course it's, it's very hard to untangle, you know, why does a company get these deals? Um, because of course they are, you know, they're, they're, they're explanations. Well, we were getting the deals cause we have the best product and we've spent a long time, um, selling it. But of course, when you're talking about defense contracts, I think inevitably like politics plays a role. And, um, and I think it's, it's no accident that, that Palantir took off during the Trump administration, that, that, that really had these, a series of breakthroughs. You know, you know, under an administration where Teal had influence. Um, I also, um, I also think, you know, you brought up his, his, his tax status and, and this, um, we could probably have a really long conversation about this, but, um, Teal has been pursuing his whole career, this very, very, very aggressive strategy to pay. It's legal, but, but just exceedingly aggressive strategy …

AI assessment note: “Yeah. I mean, he did great.”

Q If you're encountering a group of generally optimistic builders, how does this, you know, very dark attitude towards the world and its institutions take such a hold inside that community?

A So one, I, you know, I, I spent a lot of time thinking about this. I, you know, I talked to a lot of, um, you know, former PayPal, uh, employees. Um, and I, I think it's weird. PayPal has really, people know a lot about PayPal in tech. It's been kind of scrutinized a lot, I think rightly, but there's still things like that are probably underappreciated. And I think one is the extent to which there was this kind of band of brothers at PayPal Who were all from conservative, this conservative publication. Like there were like, it wasn't just, oh, Teal starts a, um, a conservative newspaper and then, you know, goes to law school and then gets into tech. But like, he really brought along this whole crew of people and, and their whole thing had been kind of us against the world. And that then became transposed, you know, into PayPal where PayPal, you know, there was a political aspect to PayPal, which is something people overlook. You kind of hinted at it, but You know, in the early days, they were talking about it, as you said, like as this thing that would break the, not just the global banking system, but like national sovereignty, that it would make it impossible for countries to regulate their, their monetary systems, to make it possible for people in repressive states to, you know, obviously to move money in or out easily. And, and so it was this, you know, overtly political th…

AI assessment note: “their whole thing had been kind of us against the world. And that then became transposed”

Q First time, right? First time someone who was openly gay spoke at the, uh, Republican national convention.

A First time they acknowledged it on stage. Cause there actually had been one other, there had been another instance. Um, but, but that That person was booed during the, you know, during the, um, during the speech. And Teal not only wasn't booed, but he, he got a standing ovation. And like it was, when you watch it, um, you know, I, I do think it does feel like a moment. It feels like, wow, the, the, the, the, the beating heart of the Republican party, they're not just accepting this, they are cheering for it, they're excited about it. So I, I do think that is, that's something that probably, like on a historical basis, that will be an important historical thing that, that Teal was a part of.

AI assessment note: “First time they acknowledged it on stage. Cause there actually had been one other”

Q just like in a libertarian world and just let it roam wild and you stay out of the way and society sorts itself out. So I am curious what, what you think about that, how much influence has he had on Zuckerberg? And, you know, we, we point a lot to the problems that Facebook has today, but You know, are they actually kind of like the idea? Um, yeah.

A There, there's a line in, um, there's a line in the, um, Cecilia Kang, Cheryl Frankel book of, I think it's a quote from Kara Swisher about, it basically is like something to the effect that like, um, you know, Mark Zuckerberg is like a, a blank slate that Teal has. It's, it's like a very extreme statement that I think probably, um, overstates The, you know, the case like Zuckerberg is a, a very smart person. I, you know, he's obviously independent independently minded, but I do think, um, and I, I do think there's some truth to the, to that sentiment and the sentiment that you're bringing up, which is, I think that Teal has had, yeah, just an enormous impact on Mark Zuckerberg. Um, both in terms of like how the company is structured, like the literal way that Zuckerberg, um, you know, got control of Facebook and maintain control of Facebook. And then, but also, um, Yeah, this ideological thing, this, this notion that, um, as you say, institutions are really not that important and that, that it seems like Zuckerberg sort of thinks that Facebook is like the only institution that really matters or something like that. Um, but, um, but, you know, for me in those, in those journal stories, like one detail that really stuck out is, um, you know, that they're getting these reports about, um, you know, body images, women, young girls, like going on Instagram And are, are, are, are fee…

AI assessment note: “I think that Teal has had, yeah, just an enormous impact on Mark Zuckerberg.”

Q his businesses, Palantir in particular, to be able to get government contracts and thought that Getting close to power would be a good idea, and he essentially made this one billion dollar bet right after the Access Hollywood tape came out. That was like, all right, maybe Trump will be able to help me solve these problems. Let's see what happens. So how did that work out for him? Yeah.

A Well, I think it's important, um, with Teal to see that the business and politics are always connected, that, that he doesn't, that he has these, he, he has a sort of political project and a business pot project, and they work together in tandem and you can't, his ideology is in service of his business. His business is in service of his ideology. They're hard to separate. Um, kind of like, I think the Koch brothers, um, There's some of that with the Kochs too, where they're really good at combining, at finding an ideology that like sort of works with their business imperatives and, and then finding business imperatives that work with their ideology. But, um, I think with Teal, um, it's, it's two things. It's one, he was buying low. He, he had an opportunity to have a huge stake in, um, in this new administration that had very few kind of institute. There was very little institutional support for Trump. There were no, It's not only that there was little institutional support. There were no like respectable business people who were backing Trump. It was all kind of, I mean, there were a few, but it was like largely, you know, if you go to the, who else was speaking at the Republican national convention, it's like real estate kind of shady seeming real estate guys.

AI assessment note: “he had an opportunity to have a huge stake in, um, in this new administration”