The Exchanges

Q graph doesn't actually matter because the application is looking only at my behavior with the follow as a somewhat of an interesting signal and saying this is what I should show you. So how does the fact that every application has its own unique graph then sync with the idea of making a graph portable because it seems like it would only be useful in some cases and not others?

A Well, the graph is, um, if we If we think about it, a conceptual model, it's still just, um, nodes and connections, right? Individuals are the nodes, and there are connections between them, whether it's following, liking, um, being friends. And this is really, this is why I say it's very abstract. Um, it's, it's a model that can, uh, that can be, that can be used by all of these applications, but you're right. Each application will use this model, this, this, this underlying data differently. Now you say that, uh, oh, well, you know, LinkedIn is professional, whereas Uh, you know, Facebook is social. I mean, there are plenty of, there's so much overlap there, at least for me. Like I, my, my work life and my private life are, you know, fairly heavily, um, uh, overlapping and there are many people that would exist on both of them. And it doesn't really make sense for me to have to add them on one and add them on the other. Similarly with Twitter, like the, the, uh, I think like everyone on LinkedIn and everyone on Facebook are Twitter followers as well. So why would I have, why would I want to replicate these connections? Um, so many different times. Same with Instagram. Instagram, it's like, basically the same as Twitter. Um, Not all of them will use the underlying data in the same way. As you say, TikTok may take it as only a very sort of, uh, in terms of the services it provid…

AI assessment note: “why would I want to replicate these connections? Um, so many different times.”

Q But the difference is we have much more powerful computers now than we did back then. So is it a computing power issue?

A Um, no, no, it's, it's more of a, so we've moved up a couple of levels since then. Um, So we've, we've got powerful computers, and we have, um, pretty decent, um, connectivity. Um, we have, um, a incredible level of, like, accessibility, so we can, you know, access all this, um, you know, the internet from all sorts, from, from these tiny little devices that we carry around with us. We've come very far in that regard, but there's still, um, a substantial amount of, um, of a gap in terms of, um, The, the higher level elements. So, um, these basically boil down to software. Um, so software libraries, software development kits, um, services, and integrations. Um, so when I think integration, I'm really talking about, you know, integrating with the, the rest of the world's services, whether they're digital or meatspace, doesn't really matter so much. Um, and we, we'll make, you know, we are moving slowly there, but it will take a while. It's not, it's not, um, It's not something where, ah, you can sort of click your fingers, invest a billion dollars, and expect, like, in three months time, everything to have been changed over. Um, It takes a lot of people to understand. It's an education problem as much as it is a technological problem. People have to, like, get their heads around what this is. Like, a lot of Web Two could have been built on the technologies that we had five or 10 …

AI assessment note: “no, no, it's, it's more of a... boil down to software”

Q the currency in El Salvador. And I've heard you speak about it. It seems like it can be helpful to avoid some of the fees with remittances. But when I, when I listen to Bitcoin people, I don't know what the deal is. They hate web three people. And the web three people can't stand Bitcoin people. It seems like you'd have common ground. What's going on in that rivalry?

A Um, I'm not sure. Um, I suspect that the Bitcoin people that are not super keen on the web three people are probably just on the web three movement. Um, maybe, um, Think of it a little too much in terms of the, uh, you know, the NFT hype stuff, rather than, um, the underlying, um, uh, let's say social and technological direction. Um, I certainly have very good, uh, you know, uh, relationships, very good friendships with, with people in the Bitcoin space. Um, so I, I don't know. I mean, I, I, I don't know about the web three people who, who, who don't seem to get on with the Bitcoin people. Wow. I, I think, you know, there's probably, um, some degree of, of, you know, it's kind of sad, but some degree of tribalism that happens here. Um, but, uh, I suspect that, uh, modulo a few, uh, A few of the sort of, um, let's say less, uh, less in it for, for the movement, more in it for the money people on both sides. I think, I think there is a lot of shared, um, desire, um, to use this technology to, to really, um, you know, help, uh, get society onto a better footing.

AI assessment note: “there's probably, um, some degree of, of, you know, it's kind of sad, but some degree of tribalism”

Q social network on maybe a blockchain like Ethereum has been that the gas fees would be out of control to make any transactions you'd have to pay Thousands of dollars. So understand this is going to be built on Polkadot, um, which is the second, second blockchain you've created. Um, Is it going to have the same issues in terms of transaction fees and gas fees that the others have?

A No, from the ground up, it's been built to have, um, you know, scalable decentralized security. And that was from the 2016 paper on Polkadot that I, that I put out. Um, that's really what the, uh, what the premise of this is. And, um, you know, it achieves this through essentially dividing, you know, division of labor, you know, pretty Pretty obvious stuff, really, but, uh, the engineering behind, like, ensuring that the labor is divided, um, but we retain the security of, uh, that a decentralized system provides is, that's the hard bit. Like, that engineering is, uh, is non-trivial, and it's sometimes mentioned, but, like, I, I think it, it does, you know, it does deserve, um, a special, uh, point. You know, I, I built the original version of, of Ethereum, you know, Like C++ Ethereum back in early, uh, early, I don't know. I, I, I got something working after a month or two, right? And that was pretty much just me. Um, and it's taken me and a whole load of, of, of really great engineers, four plus years to build, uh, Polkadot. And, um, it's not that we, we, you know, we had, I don't know, some sort of terrible car accident at the beginning and we were just like debilitated or something. No, it, it, Take like the engineering effort required for this. Plus we have a research team working behind us, um, making sure that, you know, what we're doing is, is sensible. What we're doing…

AI assessment note: “No, from the ground up, it's been built to have, um, you know, scalable”

Q Okay, so let's, let's continue on on, um, the Gavin journey. So, you watch what happens with Snowden. Um, you believe there's too much centralization of power. It's too easy for the government to go in and listen into what you're doing, and you decide to apply a technological solution to that. So what happens next?

A Well, I mean, I didn't, it wasn't quite as like step one to step two there. Um, it might, it kind of set things up in my mind a little bit. It, it made me, um, I think over, over the last 10 years, and probably longer, but over the last 10 years, I have moved from a, ah, a sort of, let's say, trust-ambivalent, um, stance, trust-neutral stance, like, there are, there are banks and government and all that sort of thing, and I could, I, I kind of have to trust them, and that's kind of ok, I, you know, they, they could leave me alone, I, you know, it's, it's, it's all good. And over those 10 years, I have felt, um, that what my expectations, what that, that which I had been given to expect, had been, um, had been, had not been honored by those who should be the ones honoring it. And It's not that I sought to fix any specific thing. So it's not that it was like, oh, uh, you know, here are the Snowden revelations, uh, government spying on, on us, especially in the free world, um, against what, what appear to be the law, right? The laws of the world. Um, I will fix that and prevent them from spying on me. No, I mean, I could have started encrypting all my stuff. I didn't, I could, you know, there are, there are concrete steps I could have taken to sort of at least fix it for me and maybe even help fix it for others. That wasn't really the, the, the path that I went on, but it helped, …

AI assessment note: “Well, I mean, I didn't, it wasn't quite as like step one to step two”

Q Do you think people will collectively vote to have an algorithm that shows them more boring stuff, but less rage filled things?

A I don't think it's, uh, I mean, I wouldn't say that I wouldn't say that like everybody would need to do this. I would, I look upon it as like lots of different groups of people, um, some of which overlap and these different groups, it's like, I'm in a group. I'm in this, this, this, this set, a social set. And I want, uh, I care about this particular, I care about like, Hey, what's the average, uh, um, uh, give me the average political considerations that this group has, has concluded. Um, give me the extremes. I want to know the extremes, right? Let me, I don't know. There's all sorts of like potential algorithms and products out there. But the point is that as long as we have only, you know, three or four places in the, in the Western world at least, where this discourse is happening, um, and therefore three or three, three or four centralized, uh, organizations that get to dictate the rules of the discourse and the, um, the forum, the mechanics of the forum under which it happens, then That's, that's really not a great way of, of allowing, um, technology to continue innovating and continuing, uh, to, uh, facilitate, um, healthy discourse.

AI assessment note: “I wouldn't say that like everybody would need to do this.”