The Exchanges

Q we know that the other devices have been left in. Nolan is kind of moving about the world with a Neuralink, uh, in his brain right now. Uh, but this is something that has only been used in circumstances of like when the brain is already open to understand Uh, to try it out or understand a little bit more about surgery. So why haven't you left it? That's right.

A We, we've, we've taken, we will be leaving it in is the, is the short answer to your question. And the, the reason is that we've taken a slightly different approach to, um, to development, which is, um, to emphasize, to make sure that what we've developed is, uh, safe and highly functional before beginning permanent implants. And so, uh, for us, it's been incredibly important Uh, to ensure that the interface works and delivers a level of functionality that we think is, um, is essential, uh, to guarantee to patients before we start leaving the devices in. So we, we therefore pursued a, uh, a strategy that was sort of a phased development approach. Um, and so in our first 40 patients, um, those were temporary implants, uh, that were designed to Validate that the quality of the signals and the ability to decode those signals in real time. We then, um, you know, we now we're actually the first, um, modern brain computer interface company to have a FDA clearance. So the, uh, version of the electrode that you were holding in your hand actually has now, um, FDA clearance. So among the current leading BCI companies, we're the only company, uh, that has a full clearance from the FDA. And, uh, as part of leveraging that clearance, um, We're moving to a next phase in our clinical studies that will allow the system to be left in place for up to 30 days, and that phase will help us further …

AI assessment note: “to make sure that what we've developed is, uh, safe and highly functional”

Q Okay. So we will have to do another hour then is what you're saying. Uh, and then what about this idea of, of AI and human brains merging? Any thoughts on that?

A It's already happening, right? I mean, in some ways that's, that's exactly what we're developing. And we, we see the brain computer interfaces today as, as you alluded to, and as Michael mentioned, as kind of like the, um, in some ways the foundational layer of, um, you know, a merger between The brain and artificial intelligence right now, it has some very practical manifestations, which is effectively to become a different kind of user interface. You know, as Michael mentioned, we have a ways today that we've become accustomed to of how we interact with the digital world. And it's usually with voice or hand control. Um, but the technology that we're building is to enable direct brain to Digital inter digital world control. And right now, actually what we're doing almost of necessity, uh, because so much technology is just built around, um, voice and gestural and, um, you know, hand motor control is kind of a two-step bridge between neural intent and a conversion to what would be, for example, Typing on a keyboard or moving a cursor or speaking some commands to a computer, but that's just kind of a, an artifact of the way the user interfaces of today are built. We already know actually, um, that the latency between your brain and your hand and the ability to think something and type it is around 25 milliseconds. So that actually puts a, Biological hard limit on how fast you ca…

AI assessment note: “It's already happening, right? I mean, in some ways that's, that's exactly what we're developing.”

Q And there's not really a, what does that greater, uh, number of signals give you?

A Well, um, it really, the important, it, it, it provides us, uh, um, a more detailed picture, uh, and a more complete picture of what the brain is doing at any given time, because I think one of the important things to, to realize about the brain, um, at least the parts of the brain that we think of as being most relevant, um, is that almost all of our conscious experience, whether that is movement or sensation or vision or, um, sort of, Decision making or memory all happens, um, basically at the surface of the brain. We call that the cortex. Uh, I think that's not an intuition that everybody has because we think of the brain as a three dimensional structure, which it is living inside the head. And so people think of it as, um, as kind of all of the functions of the brain. People have this intuition that are, they're kind of uniformly distributed in this, uh, in this, you know, 1500 grams of tissue, but actually they're, That all that processing is not uniformly distributed within that volume. It's almost all very, very close to the surface.

AI assessment note: “it provides us, uh, um, a more detailed picture”

Q And when you apply it to stroke patients, uh, is it that, You are able to decode what they want to say and then help them say it? Or is it if they lost some movement Actually using electrical signals to help them move again.

A So, uh, we're still talking, we're still talking about a function that is decoding intention and expressing that through digital means. So for example, somebody who, you know, who has a stroke on the, uh, you know, on one side of their brain and can't move a hand, a hand, for example, or can't move it well enough to type, uh, you know, that, that kind of deficit, which is debilitating for people who are trying to return to work. Uh, especially if it's in the dominant hand, for example, that kind of deficit could be augmented by a direct thought to digital world, uh, communication. Does that make sense? We're not talking about yet stimulating the brain in a way that restores the hand back to normal or that, um, you know, provides an arthosis over the hand that moves the hand again. I do think that will come and we're already talking to partner companies, uh, to do that kind of a thing. But the therapy from brain computer interfaces is primarily something that kind of reads brain activity in real time and establishes, you know, um, intuitive, smooth communication with the digital world.

AI assessment note: “we're still talking about a function that is decoding intention and expressing that through digital means”

Q to do something with that information. But do you ever anticipate a moment where the, the totality, like I started this show saying, could we build a foundational model for the brain? Um, and I guess that was like a way of saying, could we find a moment where the totality of everything happening in the brain is decoded by technology? And if that happens, what does that lead to?

A Uh, we talk about this a lot. Um, this is sort of in the zeitgeist right now in the tech world, this question of the whole brain interface, and, um, I'm happy to discuss it. We have kind of our own view of what it means to have a whole brain interface, and I think understanding what that implies, um, requires a few things. One is that, as we mentioned earlier, The distribution of information through the brain is not uniform. There are areas of the brain that are much more relevant to our interaction with the world than others. Um, so most of the brain, uh, is, is actually not relevant for communicating with the outside world or with artificial intelligence. Most of the brain, um, is taking care of the body, uh, and not in ways that are Particularly relevant to interfacing with the outside world.

AI assessment note: “most of the brain, uh, is, is actually not relevant for communicating”

Q at the surface. So what happens if you expand beyond the motor cortex, where else could this technology go? I know Elon Musk and Neuralink are currently working on eyesight, which even if you are born completely without Eyes could potentially take signal from the world around and then beam it into the visual cortex. Uh, so that may be, it might be one application. Where else should we look?

A Uh, it's a great question, and we definitely are thinking about this, and it actually, um, it actually dovetails with the prior question, which is, um, you know, what are we learning, uh, as we bring this, uh, technology in its current stage into the world, and as we work with, uh, patients and physicians across the country, even in the early, uh, clinical studies. And, um, part of, part of that experience for us has been a process of discovery. You know, when you bring a technology, uh, uh, that you've been developing into the real world and you put it into the hands of, um, you know, of, uh, people with lived experience and experienced insightful practitioners, um, you learn all kinds of things that you might not, that you might learn, might not anticipate. And so actually, even though we're focusing on applications in the motor cortex, as part of these studies, our electrodes have been placed, um, Actually, all over the brain. They've been placed in, uh, sensory cortex, in prefrontal cortex areas, which are responsible for decision making. They've been placed, um, in the spinal cord and on the brain stem, and so, um, I would say that at this point, um, it's very exciting for us, because we have an incredibly large, rich data set that's probably, um, just absolutely unique in the world now, as far as regions of the brain that we've Interacted with and things that we're thinki…

AI assessment note: “They've been placed in, uh, sensory cortex, in prefrontal cortex areas”