Oct 18, 2024 · 36m · american-optimist
Jonathan Greenblatt on Ta-Nehisi Coates, CRT, and woke politics · Joe Lonsdale
0:00 / 0:00
▶ Watch on YouTube →
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of American Optimist, host Joe Lonsdale interviews ADL CEO Jonathan Greenblatt about the historic spike in antisemitism following October 7th, radicalization on college campuses, and debates surrounding progressive ideology and political neutrality within the ADL.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Joe holds 30.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Joe as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 3.5 Guest disagreement 2.4 Joe pushing back 3.6
speaking balance: gold is Joe, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 22:22 Greenblatt firmly denies pushing CRT or partnering with BLM
Greenblatt flatly rejects Joe's claim that ADL pushed CRT, stating unequivocally that they do not teach CRT or align with Black Lives Matter.
Hardest push from Joe ▶ 25:10 Joe presses Greenblatt on endorsing Coates after extreme statementsJoe refuses to let the ADL off the hook for hosting Ta-Nehisi Coates materials after Coates made extreme statements regarding the October 7th attacks.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:40 Greenblatt reveals granular data on ADL extremist trackingGreenblatt educates the host on how ADL tracks imminent threats, providing over 2,000 detailed tips with location and weapon data to law enforcement.
Joe holds their own ▶ 24:20 Joe cites specific authors and curricula on ADL websiteJoe demonstrates rigorous preparation by calling out specific entries for Ibram X. Kendi and Ta-Nehisi Coates on ADL's website to challenge claims of ideological neutrality.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Joe as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Joe pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Jonathan Greenblatt's Journey: From Tech and Government to ADL | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe and Jonathan establish rapport discussing Greenblatt's transition from Silicon Valley and Ethos Water into the Obama administration and ADL. The exchange is warm, friendly, and purely biographical. | |
| The Founding Mission and Civil Rights Legacy of the ADL | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | Greenblatt details the civil rights legacy of the ADL from the Leo Frank trial to Brown v. Board. Joe pushes back gently by questioning whether ADL applies the same anti-quota standards to Asian Americans at universities today. | |
| Surge in Antisemitism Post-October 7th and ADL's Response | 2 | 5 | 1 | 1 | Greenblatt presents detailed data on the dramatic spike in antisemitic incidents post-October 7th, explaining how ADL monitors extremists and routes actionable intelligence to law enforcement. | |
| Campus Radicalization, Institutional Failure, and Escalating Violence | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Greenblatt laments the cowardice of university leadership and highlights ADL's legal actions against universities and foreign adversaries. The host largely agrees and encourages the guest to expand. | |
| Iranian State Influence and Foreign Policy Debates | 5 | 3 | 2 | 5 | Joe challenges the Obama and Biden foreign policy approaches regarding Iran, arguing attempts at regional balance of power backfired. Greenblatt agrees that the Iranian regime is irredeemable and exports terror. | |
| Debating ADL's Political Neutrality and Platform Boycotts | 6 | 4 | 6 | 7 | Joe directly confronts Greenblatt with conservative criticisms regarding ADL's leftward drift, partisan tweets, social media boycott calls, and CRT. Greenblatt forcefully rejects the premise that ADL teaches or promotes CRT. | |
| Examining Woke Ideology, Critical Race Theory, and Controversial Authors | 8 | 3 | 4 | 8 | Joe demonstrates deep research by citing specific educational resources on the ADL website promoting Ibram X. Kendi and Ta-Nehisi Coates. Caught somewhat off guard by Coates's latest controversial remarks, Greenblatt admits he must review ADL's web content. | |
| Generational Shifts, Oppressor-Oppressed Dynamics, and Meritocracy | 7 | 4 | 3 | 6 | Joe cites recent Gallup polling showing a major partisan divide among voters regarding Israel to challenge ADL's historical focus on right-wing threats. Greenblatt reframes the issue as a generational and algorithmic divide rather than purely partisan. | |
| Actionable Solutions to Combat Hate and Campus Scorecards | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | The conversation shifts toward constructive interventions, including corporate workplace pledges, university scorecards, and legal partnerships. Greenblatt outlines practical ways individuals and firms can counter hate. | |
| Cultural Traits of Jewish Success and Final Message of Optimism | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Joe and Jonathan conclude on an optimistic note, celebrating Jewish cultural traditions of literacy, education, and hard work while looking ahead to technological and societal progress. |
Statements from this episode (22)
Lonsdale: Obama administration was more open to diverse viewpoints than Biden's
“That's one thing I'd give the Obama White House credit for that's different than this White House is that people like you who are interested in hearing from people of all points of view.”
Greenblatt: Goal is running ADL as a high-performing, impact-driving organization
“What interests me, Joe is running not a Jewish nonprofit. But a best in class, high performing, impact driving, you know, margin earning organization. And that's what I'm trying to do here.”
Greenblatt: The ADL Will Not Support Repressive Quotas for Any Group
“This organization, ADL, is against quotas. This organization will not support the idea of quotas that repress Asian Americans or Jewish Americans or Black Americans. You can forget it.”
Greenblatt: ADL Fielded Over 10,000 Antisemitic Incidents Post-October 7
“Like, Joe, in the last year alone, in the last 12 months since October the seventh, we fielded more than 10 A thousand incidents. That is triple the number of the prior 12 years.”
Greenblatt: ADL represents assaulted Jewish students at Pitt, Michigan, and OSU
“In the past month, since classes started, we tracked, I think we've got about half a dozen assaults, anti-Jewish assaults. We're representing students at Pitt, at Michigan, I think at Ohio State, who've been victimized and assaulted in just the past four to fi…”
Greenblatt: ADL launched more litigation in the past year than in its first 110 years
“ADL, Joe, we have taken on more cases, done more litigation in the last year than we did in the first 110 years.”
Greenblatt: ADL warned 200 universities about student groups supporting foreign terror
“We reported to law and to law enforcement in October of last year that we saw things that indicated that many of these student groups were providing material support for a foreign terror organization. I wrote a letter to 200 university presidents on this.”
Greenblatt: DNI reported Iran is funding and organizing campus protesters
“The Directorate of National Intelligence, the arm of the government that coordinates the FBI and the CIA and the NSA, they reported Iran is providing money And organizing capabilities to these protesters.”
Greenblatt: There are no reformists in Iran's regime, only hardliners
“There is no such thing as reformists in the regime. Ok, there are only hardliners and ultra hardliners.”
Greenblatt: Woke ideology significantly drives rising antisemitism and marginalization
“And I do think this crazy woke ideology that sees so many, again, segments of society has a lot to do with why Jews are being marginalized and attacked, but.”
Greenblatt: ADL has never taught or promoted Critical Race Theory
“We never pushed CRT. We don't teach CRT. We don't have a we don't do CRT.”
Greenblatt: ADL Facebook advertiser pause was prompted by white supremacists, not Trump
“Like we originally went after Facebook when there were white supremacists organizing through Facebook groups and we track Extremists. We saw them doing it. I brought up the company's attention. They didn't act. And that was why we said advertisers should pause…”
Lonsdale: ADL website promotes Ta-Nehisi Coates's writings on reparations
“You also have material. I want to cite it to you. From Ta-Nehisi Coates that actually suggests people go read Ta-Nehisi Coates works on reparations for black people. This is on your site today.”
Greenblatt: Ta-Nehisi Coates's book on Israel is biased and distorts perspective
“I think what Ta-Nehisi has said about Israel and about the Jewish people is so objectionable. I think his book is full of bias and it's more notable, not for what it includes, Joe, But for what it excludes, which seems intended to distort and warp the reader's…”
Lonsdale: 80% of Republicans sympathize with Israel, versus 35% of Democrats
“In the latest Gallup polling, I don't know if you saw, 35% of Democrats sympathize with Israel, 43% sympathize with the Palestinians. Meanwhile, 80% of Republicans sympathize with Israel.”
Greenblatt: Tlaib, Omar, MTG, and Carlson are all problematic on antisemitism
“There are members of the squad like Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar, Who are incredibly problematic. And there are people on the right, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, or some voices like Tucker Carlson, who I find extremely problematic as well.”
Greenblatt: Antisemitism is an old-versus-young issue, not left-versus-right
“I think the antisemitism issue is, is not so much a left right issue. I think it's an old young issue.”
Greenblatt: Society must focus on merit and opportunity rather than equity
“This kind of rigid oppressor, oppressed ideology, I don't know how anyone who looks at it can't see how it's problematic. We need a society that's not about you know, crazy notions of equity. We need realistic notions of opportunity. We need to focus on, on me…”
Greenblatt: ADL Works with Jones Day, Davis Polk, and Latham & Watkins
“We're working with a whole bevy of law firms. Like, I mean, the biggest firms in the country like Jones Day and Davis Polk and Latham and Watkins and Arnold and Porter, the biggest firms are working with us.”
Greenblatt: Google, Apollo, and J. Crew Joined ADL Workplace Pledge
“We created something called the Workplace Pledge Against Anti-Semitism. Google, WPP, Apollo, J. Crew, a bunch of gigantic companies and firms have joined that.”
Greenblatt: ADL Will Expand Campus Antisemitism Report Card to ~140 Schools
“I can tell you we're re, we're doing the next version in March. It'll expand to 135, 140 schools. So we're almost going to double it.”
Greenblatt: Jewish success stems from literacy, education, and mutual aid
“For many different reasons, Jews have been stereotyped and scapegoated for thousands of years, marginalized in nearly every society, and they've succeeded because they're, we're a literate people, we're a civilization, and we're focused on helping each other o…”